change 08 pass it on

[conleys ghost]

maybe you've heard of the book, "House of Bush, House of Saud"

makes no difference...a vote for either of these guys is a vote for saudi arabia 

[they call me MR. GRUMPY god damn it!]

is it so difficult to accept that bo is actually the same old bs

[conleys ghost]

is it so difficult to accept that bo is actually the same old bs

no but it does suck 

[trex]

is it so difficult to accept that bo is actually the same old bs

no but it does suck 

I don't know why people couldn't see this coming...too good to be true

[conleys ghost]

is it so difficult to accept that bo is actually the same old bs

no but it does suck 

I don't know why people couldn't see this coming...too good to be true

its not that people couldn't see it coming, its that people are tired of the washington bull crud and want to believe something new and different is coming

people who seem to focus more on democrats v. republicans lose sight of the fact that we have a very real problem growing in dc

popular opinion of all federal government -- not just pres bush but congress as well are at all time lows. there is a reason for that.

if you think republicans care about you then good for you, but all i see are greedy pols with a long list of priorities ahead of representing their constituents

[trex]

is it so difficult to accept that bo is actually the same old bs

no but it does suck 

I don't know why people couldn't see this coming...too good to be true

its not that people couldn't see it coming, its that people are tired of the washington bull crud and want to believe something new and different is coming

people who seem to focus more on democrats v. republicans lose sight of the fact that we have a very real problem growing in dc

popular opinion of all federal government -- not just pres bush but congress as well are at all time lows. there is a reason for that.

if you think republicans care about you then good for you, but all i see are greedy pols with a long list of priorities ahead of representing their constituents

I full agree with everything you said Conley. However it is a difference in party ideology.  I dont agree with super rich people getting big tax breaks, but I dont think they shoudl have the s*#t taxed out of them either to support the masses who think the govt owes them something.

I know they are all the same....but I like the ones who fought for thier country because it is an outright display of how much they love this country...Democrats downplay his service because they dont believe in war...war sucks but at times is necessary.

The Obama ship will lose their politic  wind and will be dismantled slowly and sink in November.

[spunkloaf]

is it so difficult to accept that bo is actually the same old bs

no but it does suck 

I don't know why people couldn't see this coming...too good to be true

its not that people couldn't see it coming, its that people are tired of the washington bull crud and want to believe something new and different is coming

people who seem to focus more on democrats v. republicans lose sight of the fact that we have a very real problem growing in dc

popular opinion of all federal government -- not just pres bush but congress as well are at all time lows. there is a reason for that.

if you think republicans care about you then good for you, but all i see are greedy pols with a long list of priorities ahead of representing their constituents

I full agree with everything you said Conley. However it is a difference in party ideology.  I dont agree with super rich people getting big tax breaks, but I dont think they shoudl have the s*#t taxed out of them either to support the masses who think the govt owes them something.

I know they are all the same....but I like the ones who fought for thier country because it is an outright display of how much they love this country...Democrats downplay his service because they dont believe in war...war sucks but at times is necessary.

The Obama ship will lose their politic  wind and will be dismantled slowly and sink in November.

Trex it seems to me that you are paranoid that this country is full of lazy people or something.  Not only that, but you seem to be affixed to the idea that all lazy people are on the left.  Not only that, but you also seem to be affixed to the idea that supporting the war/joining the army is the only way to show love for your country.

Why?

[trex]

is it so difficult to accept that bo is actually the same old bs

no but it does suck 

I don't know why people couldn't see this coming...too good to be true

its not that people couldn't see it coming, its that people are tired of the washington bull crud and want to believe something new and different is coming

people who seem to focus more on democrats v. republicans lose sight of the fact that we have a very real problem growing in dc

popular opinion of all federal government -- not just pres bush but congress as well are at all time lows. there is a reason for that.

if you think republicans care about you then good for you, but all i see are greedy pols with a long list of priorities ahead of representing their constituents

I full agree with everything you said Conley. However it is a difference in party ideology.  I dont agree with super rich people getting big tax breaks, but I dont think they shoudl have the s*#t taxed out of them either to support the masses who think the govt owes them something.

I know they are all the same....but I like the ones who fought for thier country because it is an outright display of how much they love this country...Democrats downplay his service because they dont believe in war...war sucks but at times is necessary.

The Obama ship will lose their politic  wind and will be dismantled slowly and sink in November.

Trex it seems to me that you are paranoid that this country is full of lazy people or something.  Not only that, but you seem to be affixed to the idea that all lazy people are on the left.  Not only that, but you also seem to be affixed to the idea that supporting the war/joining the army is the only way to show love for your country.

Why?

Spunk you seem to change people words around to suit your own argument at times.  I haven't stated anything about unpatriotism for some time (since before our truce or treaty ) however, I do feel a bit like Mr. D in that we need to support our troops and the effort.  You cannot distinguish one from the other in that they are one and the same.  I understand you are opposed to the war, and war itself.  I do not have a problem with war when it is absolutely necessary.  Are our armed forces where they need to be?  In the eyes of some no. However, a united country at least for our troops and their efforts may ease the situation here at home.  When this war is over then we can look at preventing future wars from happening.

Know that if we are attacked again there will be another war. And one would hope that it would be in the right place and for the right reasons.

[spunkloaf]

Well I hope you're right.

This war was wagered very irresponsibly.

I remember being at home and seeing the first news coverage of the US bombing Baghdad.  I thought "Damn.  More war.  But I guess it is necessary..."

Then, we made zero progress, and I thought "Wait a minute...we have the most powerful and supposedly trained armed forces in the world, and we still haven't caught OBL?"

That was when I started to say bring the troops home.  It's pointless.  We're KILLING our own troops with almost no progress.

Except Saddam Hussein.  That was the only notable progress I saw in the war.  But it took two years to catch the fucker, and there was absolutely no attention being paid to OBL.  Why?  Because we let him get away.

This war sucks.  In terms of statistics, it is the biggest joke of a war people have seen since Vietnam.


And no.  Support for the war and support for the troops are NOT one in the same.

I hope they come home soon, but I hope that they can finish their job efficiently and safely if they are forced to stay there.  End of story.  I'm not out to thwart their efforts.  I'm not taking a trip over to Iraq and dressing like Casper and shooting at our troops.  This is what people make it sound like I am doing.

I love my troops.  I want them to come home and regroup and enjoy a beer for the first time in a long deserved while.  They don't deserve to fight an un-necessary war.

And if they want to fight a war they think is necessary, that's fucking awesome.  But I know it is just as divided in the armed forces as it is at home.

I have three relatives and at least five friends who went to Iraq.  Talking to all of them about it, I concluded that half supported the war and the other half FOUGHT despite their opposition.

Nobody can convince me that ALL our troops want to be over there.  Many know that it is bullshit, and suicidal.  If our offenses can come up with a better plan to take this war in a new direction which gets it done quicker and safer, I would support it.  But our president is a dumbass and I don't think he gives a shit about efficiency or safety.  He just wants war.

[Mr. Dirlewanger]

This war sucks.  In terms of statistics, it is the biggest joke of a war people have seen since Vietnam.

What do you mean?

[spunkloaf]

Just what I said.

[Mr. Dirlewanger]

Just what I said.

What stats and what is the relationship of those stats to Vietnam?

[trex]

Veitnam was a police action..Iraq is similar.....we dont fight wars the way we used to where we bomob the shiznizzle out of the enemies and destroy their will to fight....we cannot do this because these f*3kin Piece of shite jellyfish hide amongst civilians.

I think maybe he thinks it is a wasted effort.

[spunkloaf]

It's not a "wasted" effort.  It's a badly coordinated effort.

[bored]

There has been some other progress such as the elections, suicide bombings in Israel have stopped (or slowed) as Saddam could no longer fund. I recall Syria also did something I thought was significant, though for the life of me I can't remember exactly what. Of course, we haven't been attacked since 9-11.

The problem is that there is no end in site. We all don't want to lose our soldiers, but comparable to other wars the casualty rate is significantly less. Capture of OBL is unfortunate. But he is, saddly not going to solve the problem. I want to see him captured or killed, the quicker the better. But we are not at war with a single person, but a movement set out to destroy us. He'll one day be gone and we'll find another, very likely worse adversary than OBL as that IS what the trend has historically been, to step up to take his place. This is exactly what the war is attempting to accomplish.

Whether Iraq had something to do with 9-11 is irrelevant at this point. Also I'll note that WMD's have been used by Iraq in the past, and the entire global community believed he was a threat. The Clinton Administration was the first whom I've heard use the term WMD's with regard to Iraq.




Sure, it was apart of the invasion package which most senators didn't bother to read before approving. But the question as I see it is: Will we be able to, not only stabilize the region but also redefine it? I am not just talking about Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan but terrorism as a global movement.

I don't know. To me it seems like a long shot and I have little hope that it can be accomplished to our terms. I'm no expert but personally, I feel it might be too early. I'm of the opinion that war against international terrorism is inevitable. Whether we do this now or in 100 years but it will happen and the outcome is uncertain. I don't doubt that we will require the unified support of most, or all nations. But until that day comes when they help us, we are in for a stalemate at best. Temporary peace until the next 9-11 occurs.

Another thing to worry about with Iraq is if a fascist regime will take its place as in Iran. This could be potentially worse.