change 08 pass it on

[spunkloaf]

Yes, I agree with much of that.

Thanks for not bringing "patriotism" into it.

[Scaybeeez]

There has been some other progress such as the elections, suicide bombings in Israel have stopped (or slowed) as Saddam could no longer fund. I recall Syria also did something I thought was significant, though for the life of me I can't remember exactly what. Of course, we haven't been attacked since 9-11.

I'm not so sure that the suicide bombings in Israel have stopped because of the overthrow of Hussein.  I mean, there's no shortage of explosives in the Occupied Territories today.  If anything, Fatah and Hamas both being in charge of different portions of the Palestinian territory, competing to see who can run a better organized state, probably had more of an effect than anything - though I doubt Israel is particularly eager to admit it.

Is the thing with Syria you're thinking of the removal of their troops from Lebanon?

[bored]

There has been some other progress such as the elections, suicide bombings in Israel have stopped (or slowed) as Saddam could no longer fund. I recall Syria also did something I thought was significant, though for the life of me I can't remember exactly what. Of course, we haven't been attacked since 9-11.

I'm not so sure that the suicide bombings in Israel have stopped because of the overthrow of Hussein.  I mean, there's no shortage of explosives in the Occupied Territories today.  If anything, Fatah and Hamas both being in charge of different portions of the Palestinian territory, competing to see who can run a better organized state, probably had more of an effect than anything - though I doubt Israel is particularly eager to admit it.

Is the thing with Syria you're thinking of the removal of their troops from Lebanon?

Yes, that's it.

I'm not sure they stopped either. The media hasn't covered much of it that I've seen. More likely it just decreased since the invasion.

[justsaynotobo]

Sorry.

I agree with Pittys assessment. You were told all the facts and they are horrible but yet you still insist BO should be pres..so i agree with what she said..sorry.

[trex]

There has been some other progress such as the elections, suicide bombings in Israel have stopped (or slowed) as Saddam could no longer fund. I recall Syria also did something I thought was significant, though for the life of me I can't remember exactly what. Of course, we haven't been attacked since 9-11.

The problem is that there is no end in site. We all don't want to lose our soldiers, but comparable to other wars the casualty rate is significantly less. Capture of OBL is unfortunate. But he is, saddly not going to solve the problem. I want to see him captured or killed, the quicker the better. But we are not at war with a single person, but a movement set out to destroy us. He'll one day be gone and we'll find another, very likely worse adversary than OBL as that IS what the trend has historically been, to step up to take his place. This is exactly what the war is attempting to accomplish.

Whether Iraq had something to do with 9-11 is irrelevant at this point. Also I'll note that WMD's have been used by Iraq in the past, and the entire global community believed he was a threat. The Clinton Administration was the first whom I've heard use the term WMD's with regard to Iraq.




Sure, it was apart of the invasion package which most senators didn't bother to read before approving. But the question as I see it is: Will we be able to, not only stabilize the region but also redefine it? I am not just talking about Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan but terrorism as a global movement.

I don't know. To me it seems like a long shot and I have little hope that it can be accomplished to our terms. I'm no expert but personally, I feel it might be too early. I'm of the opinion that war against international terrorism is inevitable. Whether we do this now or in 100 years but it will happen and the outcome is uncertain. I don't doubt that we will require the unified support of most, or all nations. But until that day comes when they help us, we are in for a stalemate at best. Temporary peace until the next 9-11 occurs.

Another thing to worry about with Iraq is if a fascist regime will take its place as in Iran. This could be potentially worse.

Bottom line.....OIL!

We want oil to be cheap for Americans ....even though we have our own to last for sometime...we want to use everyone elses then we have it all.

Think about this.......the car that took senators to the gallery was made by studabker in 1908.  It was finally retired 20 years ago...if we build all electric cars...oil people...mechanics and small repair shops will go out of business and or be out of work....oil keeps people working

[Peter1469]

Big oil put the makers of horse carriages, many ferries, and indeed many horses, out of business too. 

Do you believe that the people who intend to protect cannot learn the new skills necessary to continue working when we change from oil based fuel to alternative fuels? 

[trex]

Big oil put the makers of horse carriages, many ferries, and indeed many horses, out of business too. 

Do you believe that the people who intend to protect cannot learn the new skills necessary to continue working when we change from oil based fuel to alternative fuels? 

I am saying that electric cars require little maintence.....most will not want to retool thier lives..they will complain instead

[Peter1469]

Well, they may not have a choice.    I am sure that Americans in the oil business and related fields will do better than our friends in the Middle East.   

[trex]

Well, they may not have a choice.    I am sure that Americans in the oil business and related fields will do better than our friends in the Middle East.   

I agree. But the Lazocrats will want the government to do something for them to help them retool thier careers and that again will cost people who actually work more money.

[Peter1469]

I see your point. 

[bored]

There has been some other progress such as the elections, suicide bombings in Israel have stopped (or slowed) as Saddam could no longer fund. I recall Syria also did something I thought was significant, though for the life of me I can't remember exactly what. Of course, we haven't been attacked since 9-11.

The problem is that there is no end in site. We all don't want to lose our soldiers, but comparable to other wars the casualty rate is significantly less. Capture of OBL is unfortunate. But he is, saddly not going to solve the problem. I want to see him captured or killed, the quicker the better. But we are not at war with a single person, but a movement set out to destroy us. He'll one day be gone and we'll find another, very likely worse adversary than OBL as that IS what the trend has historically been, to step up to take his place. This is exactly what the war is attempting to accomplish.

Whether Iraq had something to do with 9-11 is irrelevant at this point. Also I'll note that WMD's have been used by Iraq in the past, and the entire global community believed he was a threat. The Clinton Administration was the first whom I've heard use the term WMD's with regard to Iraq.




Sure, it was apart of the invasion package which most senators didn't bother to read before approving. But the question as I see it is: Will we be able to, not only stabilize the region but also redefine it? I am not just talking about Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan but terrorism as a global movement.

I don't know. To me it seems like a long shot and I have little hope that it can be accomplished to our terms. I'm no expert but personally, I feel it might be too early. I'm of the opinion that war against international terrorism is inevitable. Whether we do this now or in 100 years but it will happen and the outcome is uncertain. I don't doubt that we will require the unified support of most, or all nations. But until that day comes when they help us, we are in for a stalemate at best. Temporary peace until the next 9-11 occurs.

Another thing to worry about with Iraq is if a fascist regime will take its place as in Iran. This could be potentially worse.

Bottom line.....OIL!

We want oil to be cheap for Americans ....even though we have our own to last for sometime...we want to use everyone elses then we have it all.

Think about this.......the car that took senators to the gallery was made by studabker in 1908.  It was finally retired 20 years ago...if we build all electric cars...oil people...mechanics and small repair shops will go out of business and or be out of work....oil keeps people working

If 9-11 didn't happen, do you think we'd still be there?

How will an electric car keep its charge for before needing a recharge? They are about 220V correct? My buddy who is a mechanic had to take a class on fixing electric cars. They have a huge warning sign next to this big cable "DO NOT TOUCH".

[bladimz]

Sorry.

I agree with Pittys assessment. You were told all the facts and they are horrible but yet you still insist BO should be pres..so i agree with what she said..sorry.

Now THAT really makes me laugh... The one thing that everyone in this country should be able to agree on is that, for all that we are told, read, and fed by the media, we DON'T get "all the facts". That's what really makes it so difficult for the serious American voter. Anyone among us who seriously believes that they have all the facts to make an informed and intelligent decision is truly uninformed.

[Vermouth]

I agree with Pittys assessment. You were told all the facts and they are horrible but yet you still insist BO should be pres..so i agree with what she said..sorry.

Now THAT really makes me laugh... The one thing that everyone in this country should be able to agree on is that, for all that we are told, read, and fed by the media, we DON'T get "all the facts". That's what really makes it so difficult for the serious American voter. Anyone among us who seriously believes that they have all the facts to make an informed and intelligent decision is truly uninformed.

You're right, but what are we to do ... flip a coin?

[bored]

Sorry, I just noticed a typo in my post. I'll bold it.

...How long will an electric car keep its charge for before needing a recharge? They are about 220V correct? My buddy who is a mechanic had to take a class on fixing electric cars. They have a huge warning sign next to this big cable "DO NOT TOUCH".

[they call me MR. GRUMPY god damn it!]

I agree with Pittys assessment. You were told all the facts and they are horrible but yet you still insist BO should be pres..so i agree with what she said..sorry.

Now THAT really makes me laugh... The one thing that everyone in this country should be able to agree on is that, for all that we are told, read, and fed by the media, we DON'T get "all the facts". That's what really makes it so difficult for the serious American voter. Anyone among us who seriously believes that they have all the facts to make an informed and intelligent decision is truly uninformed.

You're right, but what are we to do ... flip a coin?

exactly what facts do you not have to make an "informed and intelligent" decision?