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Author Topic: DC gun law decision  (Read 332 times)
conley
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« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2008, 05:26:09 PM »

criminals will steal guns from law abiding folks...fewer law abiding folks with guns = few criminals with guns = fewer guns all around = fewer dead people

 Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin on second thought  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

just out curiousity, where do you think criminals get their guns from?

the magical gun fairy?
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they call me MR. GRUMPY god damn it!
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« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2008, 07:53:43 PM »

criminals will steal guns from law abiding folks...fewer law abiding folks with guns = few criminals with guns = fewer guns all around = fewer dead people

 Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin on second thought  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

just out curiousity, where do you think criminals get their guns from?

the magical gun fairy?

leave it to comm lee to SWING the discussion to fairys.... Wink  likely there exists a black market for guns just as there is for most other restricted goods.  now was that thaaaaaat hard, REALLY??? Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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"The pacifist is as surely a traitor to his country and to humanity as is the most brutal wrongdoer."
spunkloaf
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« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2008, 08:22:19 PM »

Some sources of the black market are theft, some are from the US government, etc.
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conley
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« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2008, 08:50:47 PM »

criminals will steal guns from law abiding folks...fewer law abiding folks with guns = few criminals with guns = fewer guns all around = fewer dead people

 Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin on second thought  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

just out curiousity, where do you think criminals get their guns from?

the magical gun fairy?

leave it to comm lee to SWING the discussion to fairys.... Wink  likely there exists a black market for guns just as there is for most other restricted goods.  now was that thaaaaaat hard, REALLY??? Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

and where do you think guns on the black market come from? a giant smelting factory run by elves?
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Mr. Dirlewanger
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« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2008, 09:06:07 PM »

criminals will steal guns from law abiding folks...fewer law abiding folks with guns = few criminals with guns = fewer guns all around = fewer dead people

 Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin on second thought  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

just out curiousity, where do you think criminals get their guns from?

the magical gun fairy?

leave it to comm lee to SWING the discussion to fairys.... Wink  likely there exists a black market for guns just as there is for most other restricted goods.  now was that thaaaaaat hard, REALLY??? Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

and where do you think guns on the black market come from? a giant smelting factory run by elves?

That's an interesting question. Anyone have any ideas? Links? 
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"Now to a tyrant or to an imperial city nothing is inconsistent which is expedient, and no man is a kinsman who cannot be trusted."

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wow
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« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2008, 10:59:32 AM »

Interesting. My interpretation is that it's an individual right.

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

But insofar as the rationale for males owning firearms was the readiness of the militia, what is the relevance now that we don't have or use a militia? A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State is no longer accurate. The US government is not going to call us up to report to duty with our rifles. It is no longer relevant to the security of the nation.

So I guess the main issue now is how reasonable are the restrictions put in place by individual states.
I learned this a few years ago.
When a person experiences a hurricane that causes devastation, people will understand they need to be their own little militia.
A person realizes they have no law enforcement protection, no city Govt., no state Govt, no Federal Govt., no communications to the outside world but they have the freedom to pull out their own arsenal and protect their own family.
This is why I stock up on ammo, food and water.
I must say, if a person wants to take away this freedom, they are the enemy and should be banned from society.


 
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Peter1469
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« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2008, 02:40:58 PM »

Police do not have a legal duty to protect you.  (If they did you could sue them for not protecting you.)  Countless courts have held so.

Police only have a duty to write and file a report when they report to the crime scene.  They may even try to solve the crime if they have time. 
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« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2008, 02:50:14 PM »

To protect and serve- Is the LAPD's motto (I guess not legally)

I own a shotgun to protect my home and family from intruders (inside my property line). 
I guess if there we some sort of invasion that the government couldnt mobilize for quickly enough  Amendment #2 would apply.

My grandfather bought one during the LA roits...kept a sock over the barrell. Grin

Automatic weapons in the hands of JOHN Q PUBLIC should not be allowed.  However, simple home protection or hunting rifles are vaild examples.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2008, 02:53:04 PM by trex » Logged

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wow
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« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2008, 03:11:58 PM »

Police do not have a legal duty to protect you.  (If they did you could sue them for not protecting you.)  Countless courts have held so.

Police only have a duty to write and file a report when they report to the crime scene.  They may even try to solve the crime if they have time. 

Great point!
That proves that the right to bear arms is essential for all Americans.
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Vermouth
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« Reply #24 on: April 01, 2008, 10:29:02 AM »

and where do you think guns on the black market come from? a giant smelting factory run by elves?

That's an interesting question. Anyone have any ideas? Links? 

This guy thinks it would be simple to crack down on trafficking ... is he right? From Democracy: A Journal of Ideas:

"...There are 280 million firearms in private hands in America, and last year there were about 300,000 gun crimes. That means that at least 279,700,000 guns did nothing wrong. We also know that in 89 percent of crimes, the person using the gun was not the person who originally bought it. In 34 percent of crimes, the firearm was bought in one state and used in a crime in another. And in 32 percent of crimes, the firearm was less than three years old.

This indicates that the root of America’s gun crime problem is not the number of guns in the hands of Americans, but an extensive web of gun trafficking operations that funnel firearms to criminals. In some cases, the trafficking operations cover long distances. Nearly 40 percent of all crime guns recovered in New Jersey and New York came from Virginia, Georgia, Florida, and the Carolinas. Nine out of 10 crime guns changed hands between the first purchase (which was likely legal) to the last purchase (which was certainly illegal). What we need, then, is a new national strategy to reduce gun violence: Don’t restrict gun rights, but instead deepen the sense of gun ownership.

The first step is to make gun trafficking a federal crime, not a term of art. There is only one statute on the federal books that deals even indirectly with gun trafficking–a vague, loophole-ridden law that allows only federally licensed gun stores "to engage in the business" of dealing in firearms. Since federal law allows any individual to sell his or her own firearms to anyone else, the "engaged in the business" bar is virtually insurmountable. And since any individual may also sell firearms without performing a background check, asking for identification, or keeping any sort of record, the requirement that individuals not knowingly sell to criminals is merely a suggestion. That is why federal prosecutors in 29 states filed five or fewer cases related to trafficking behavior over a recent three-year period.

Trafficking should be redefined as selling multiple guns out of a home, car, street, or park that have two or more of the following characteristics: obliterated serial numbers, are stolen, are new in the box, or are sold to underage buyers or people with felony records. This would still allow individuals to privately sell firearms to people they know or trust, and it would put the onus on sellers to demand a background check for those they don’t.

Beyond the new law, finding traffickers isn’t that hard. Investigators can readily aggregate the crime gun trace data that we now have–data that identifies the original buyers and sellers of hundreds of thousands of guns later used in crime. They will discover that about 1 percent of the nation’s gun stores are the source of more than half of the nation’s crime guns. And they will discover that a select group of individuals repeatedly turn up as the original purchasers of guns later linked to crimes. This is not a quirk of fate; these people are gun traffickers.

Moreover, investigators can easily check every gun recovered in a crime against the National Stolen Firearms Registry, which contains the serial numbers of two million stolen guns. Under federal law, possession of a stolen firearm adds five years to a prison sentence. True, the criminal apprehended with a stolen gun is usually not the person who lifted it. But those five years are a great bargaining chip–one state and federal prosecutors consistently leave on the table–to determine the person who actually sold the criminal the gun. Play the same game with obliterated serial numbers–another five-year penalty under federal law. An obliterated serial number hides the trafficker and provides no benefit to the person using the gun in a violent crime.

Finally, we need to close the gun-show loophole. It is no coincidence that 13 of the top 14 crime-gun-exporting states do not require background checks for sales at shows. This loophole is exploited by buyers who obtain used guns to resell on the streets..."
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wow
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« Reply #25 on: April 01, 2008, 11:52:09 AM »

Vermouth,

Nice post.
IMO, this issue comes down to who are committing most of these gun crimes.
If most of these gun crimes were committed by pink people from planet Pluto that were never enslaved, you would see more of these crimes classified as a felony.  Smiley
 
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