How do we "win" in Iraq?

[CHUQ]

By win if you mean a stable Iraq run by Iraqis for Iraqis, then I would like to see a win.  But If you are talking about some silly thing like an all out surrender of our "enemies" then you will have a long wait.  But the non-answer that you so detest, are most likely that not everyone has the same opinion of what "win" means.  Because they do not agree with you does not make them wrong nor right.

[they call me MR. GRUMPY god damn it!]

look there is no argument that the prosecution of the war has been a complete cluster f*** but my concern  is that now as we see results we work here at home to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.  it seems to me that many are committed to defeat in iraq as a means of protest against this country in general and bush in particular.  yes i get tired of non-answers to a straight forward ques and would like to hear someone say yes i want to win.  if we have a "stable" iraq it will only be because we have defeated those who would oppose this outcome and given the people of iraq an opprotunity to see and experience relative peace.   do i want to be there for ten years or even another minute longer than absolutely necessary?  NO!  will i present the enemy with a time line for withdrawal?  NO!  possibly there is something to be gained beyond thwarting islamic terrorist orgs or states that sponser.  possibly this might lead this country toward a real energy policy that exploits the resources we have here and incentivizes the market to develop clean/renewable fuels.  maybe this conflict will bring attention not just to the size of our military but to deployment (europe,korea,japan etc...) and ability to refit/supply in war. 

[SDML]

The US already declared victory several years ago.

Now, if you're asking "how do we win?" something we've already won, then you have to first state that either we didn't win, or we are in a different conflict today than the one we already won. Reasonable enough?

Clearly, we already won and are now in a different conflict...and that is the problem. This conflict is ill-defined and there is no definition of the mission, much less what constitutes victory.

How do we win? Easy: We first define the parameters of the mission, then define victory within that context, then hand it to military strategists for planning, then execute it with zero regard for politics.

[they call me MR. GRUMPY god damn it!]

i like that.  all i want to know is that we want to win.   clearly situation has changed and needs to be defined.  all i am saying that whether it is war or flag football first you have to want to win and it just seems to me that many are devoted to losing absent any thought regarding consequences.

[Gunit Hussein Sangh]

We WWWWWWOOOOOONNNNNNN!!!!

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/11/20071126-1.html

Bush has entered into an agreement which will end the occupation at the end of next year.

As part of the agreement he will keep 50,000 troops PERMANTENTLY in Iraq. Of course, he doesn't intend to run it thru congress to make it a treaty obligation, so the next president, whoever she (or he) is, can just as easily reverse it.

Now I wonder how many red blooded, patriotic Americans will rush to the recruitment office to sign up to protect al Maliki from being overthrown by his own people 

[they call me MR. GRUMPY god damn it!]

well this is kinda winding down although it was fun, don't you think we've beat this thing to death.  too bad some of that bush animus isn't directed at our actual enemies.  will leave the battle field to you being the winner in a war of words.   zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[SDML]

i like that.  all i want to know is that we want to win.   clearly situation has changed and needs to be defined.  all i am saying that whether it is war or flag football first you have to want to win and it just seems to me that many are devoted to losing absent any thought regarding consequences.

The danger I see with Bush and the current administration - and the danger I see with almost all of the current candidates - is that they refuse to re-define the conflict and so are incapable of defining victory. Even Huckabee, who came close to agreeing with Paul that "...maybe we shouldn't have gone in the first place...", said we needed to stay to clean up the mess, but then failed to follow thru with clear words or thought regarding what that actually means.

ME will be a disaster until someone steps up to the plate and re-defines the situation.

[Gunit Hussein Sangh]

I agree.

btw, the declaration "we won" was a bit premature. Today we learn that while bush may believe he can commit military forces to stay in Iraq until hell freezes over, spending trillions in tax payer money to use our military to provide security for oil companies ... there's a small matter of the Iraqi constitution that may stop the agreement. The Iraqi constitution requires that 2/3 of parliment must approve of any agreements and last May over half of them signed a petition to ask the US to politely get the hell out of their country. oops.