Hypocrites on both ends

[Gunit Hussein Sangh]

This is true when job growth exceeds the jobs being outsourced which happened in the 90's after NAFTA was passed. Even though people were losing their jobs, they were able to find other jobs with nearly the same income and benefits.

Under dear leader ... job growth has been anemic at best ... it certainly hasn't kept up with population growth and incomes have actually decreased when adjusted for inflation. When people don't have enough money to buy things, it doesn't matter how cheaply you can manufacture and sell it for 

[bored]

True points although as far as I am aware, with the exception of mr D' unemployment is relatively low isn't it? But with the economy as it is right now something has to give or else employers will start reducing departments for sure.

[Hibbidy Ha]

That is what I am talking about.  More education.  More opportunity.  Less oppression (c'mon.  It exists, at some level or another).  Less sympathy for the well-off and people who are more than able to take care of themselves--but not necessarily more sympathy for the poor, just more opportunity and more encouragement.  People need some motivation, and a vision.  A reason to make a plan for themselves.  Hell, a reason to get up in the morning.
I guarantee, when people begin to see that the government CARES about them, there will be less crime and less poverty.

There is no oppression. However, the more money companies (ie the rich) have the more money they have to invest in new projects and jobs. The only wealth redistribution that works. I agree that people need more motivation and vision, but how to tackle this? Education is the only way the gov't can really do this. I believe they have and it has helped to a small degree but there is a point when it no longer applies. Do you increase the money spent on education? That's 'been done.

The gov't does care, it is unfortunate that people don't see it. Being a right leaning kind of guy, I often use the opprotunity to point out that the dems (and the media) say things like "tax cuts for the rich", "the greedy rich guy" and other such things to make the repubs look bad. But at the same time, the repubs have done a piss-poor job educating their cause.

No oppression?  Education is getting more money?

COME ON BORED!!!   Schools are closing left and right.  Maybe it's just in your state that you see it, but Minnesota is having a HORRIBLE time with education.  And the school administrators are punishing the kids for it.

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Why is that oppression?

I don't know, why isn't education getting more money?

You are right, I don't see schools closing in my area. I do doubt they are closing left and right but I don't doubt that there are some.

Anyway, what are the admins doing or saying to the kids? Can you suggest an article online to read?

[Gunit Hussein Sangh]

True points although as far as I am aware, with the exception of mr D' unemployment is relatively low isn't it? But with the economy as it is right now something has to give or else employers will start reducing departments for sure.

2 points ...

1) Unemployment rate is not an idicator of economic growth. It's simply the percentage of the people drawing unemployment benefits. If you run out of unemployment benefits you are no longer considered unemployed. You may not have a job, but you're not *officially* unemployed. One other thing this doesn't tell you is the number of folks who took a job for less money than they were making or simply stopped looking.

2) Where have you been for the last 5 months   Jobs have been lost for 5 straight months. Before that, the job creation rate rarely kept up with population growth. There's only been a handful of months during dear leaders administration where the monthly job growth exceeded Clinton's AVERAGE FOR THE ENTIRE 8 YEARS of his presidency.

[Hibbidy Ha]

Why is that oppression?

I don't know, why isn't education getting more money?

You are right, I don't see schools closing in my area. I do doubt they are closing left and right but I don't doubt that there are some.

Anyway, what are the admins doing or saying to the kids? Can you suggest an article online to read?

I wasn't associating oppression with education, it is a separate issue--but there is definitely oppression in this country.  People below poverty level don't have NEARLY the impact in government as people with money.

I will need to take some time to find an article...but from personal perspective, for instance, in the high school in my town, the admin is requiring kids to pay more for parking passes, to buy school materials they never had to buy before, to turn in their graduation hats and gowns after the ceremony, for the homecoming kind and queen to return their crowns and capes, and they are making ridiculous policies all around which are pissing kids off.  Everything I just said may only sound like a school that isn't getting enough money, but the catch is that if students don't follow these rules, they don't get their diplomas.  !!!!!

This is just in my town though.  I will research and look if there are other schools doing similar stunts.

[bored]

That would piss me off too.

I must say that I don't agree with you regarding oppression of the poor. There are plenty of programs (welfare, foodstamps) designed to help poverty level or worse out. Some people use the opportunity to better themselves even if just a little, but most just sit back and completely lack the motivation. The success rate of these programs unfortunately are not all that good. Shelling more money seems to be the immediate answer, but in the long term it just creates more people like this. I believe it is the lack of motivation that needs to be addressed. But how?

I used to know a (democrat (not that it matters)) woman who used to work as a government councilor for women in this situation. Her job was to try to encourage them to search for jobs, anything. After a few months I saw her again and needless to say she was very discouraged when I asked how things were going. In desperation, she would often reference the womans rights movement and how hard they worked to get women into the workforce and often even referencing MLK and the civil rights movements to try to motivate them. Sadly, she concluded that there are some people that just cannot be motivated. They are so used to things and found a way to survive at rock bottom that they didn't care.

[Hibbidy Ha]

Some, yes.  But not the MAJORITY of poor people.

Most are too proud to even go for welfare.

Anybody ever been to Chicago?  New York?

Even in St. Paul there are hundreds of homeless people out waking the streets, asking for money.  Some, for FOOD.

For Christs sake.  When I was in Chicago, my cousin and I were stuck next to this crazy homeless lady named Dianne.  Dianne was standing next to an open seat, wading back and forth and scaring the shit out of me and my cousin who were sitting one-and-a-half feet away.

We knew her name because she was talking to herself in third person for the forty five minutes we sat next to her.  It was the same thing over and over.


"Hey, Dianne, it's yo husbin.  It's yo husbin, Dianne.  Dr. Love.  Remember me Dianne?  No I don't!  I said tha-ain't all me.  Dr love wants to talk about my brother.  Do you wanna talk about your brother Dianne?  I said no I don't.  You go-an talk about it somewhere else.  Tha-ain't all me."

(Repeat sporadically for forty five minutes.)


I thought to myself: How long has this lady Dianne been riding this train, and why hasn't anybody helped her?  Does anybody even notice her?  What is it about her brother and her husband?  Is his name really Dr. Love?  What the fuck?  Get her some help, man.

[conley]

spunk i'll beat your bashers to the punch and ask you this...


"How long has this lady Dianne been riding this train, and why hasn't anybody helped her? "

did you help her?

[trex]

[/quote]

That is what I am talking about.  More education.  More opportunity.  Less oppression (c'mon.  It exists, at some level or another).  Less sympathy for the well-off and people who are more than able to take care of themselves--but not necessarily more sympathy for the poor, just more opportunity and more encouragement.  People need some motivation, and a vision.  A reason to make a plan for themselves.  Hell, a reason to get up in the morning.

I guarantee, when people begin to see that the government CARES about them, there will be less crime and less poverty.
[/quote]
How about creating jobs....NO JOB...NO BENEFITS.........

Republicans are for soup kitchens and homeless shelters not welfare.  Welfare makes people dependent...Its like floaties on a person that can swim...

[bored]

Some, yes.  But not the MAJORITY of poor people.

Most are too proud to even go for welfare.

Anybody ever been to Chicago?  New York?

Even in St. Paul there are hundreds of homeless people out waking the streets, asking for money.  Some, for FOOD.

For Christs sake.  When I was in Chicago, my cousin and I were stuck next to this crazy homeless lady named Dianne.  Dianne was standing next to an open seat, wading back and forth and scaring the shit out of me and my cousin who were sitting one-and-a-half feet away.

We knew her name because she was talking to herself in third person for the forty five minutes we sat next to her.  It was the same thing over and over.


"Hey, Dianne, it's yo husbin.  It's yo husbin, Dianne.  Dr. Love.  Remember me Dianne?  No I don't!  I said tha-ain't all me.  Dr love wants to talk about my brother.  Do you wanna talk about your brother Dianne?  I said no I don't.  You go-an talk about it somewhere else.  Tha-ain't all me."

(Repeat sporadically for forty five minutes.)


I thought to myself: How long has this lady Dianne been riding this train, and why hasn't anybody helped her?  Does anybody even notice her?  What is it about her brother and her husband?  Is his name really Dr. Love?  What the fuck?  Get her some help, man.

I am in NY daily. I do see the occasional homeless person but it isn't as often or as many as you would think. At least in midtown. Actually, everyday outside my office, there is one homeless guy who has a cup out there everyday. For the 3 years I've worked here he has been out there regardless of weather. Not once did he smell and I heard him give directions to someone in the subway once. I was surprised! Mostly he is mumbling something incoherently, I often question if he just goes through the motions for the cash.

I once read an article that argued that homelessness is a type of mental disorder. It then stated one of the ny news agencies prepared an event which they invited homeless people to eat and drink and so forth. The turnout was horrible and very disappointing for the coverage. Unfortunately, I don't think we know enough about them to classify them as poor. They do not have much money, yes, however if the article is on to something, food and shelter isn't the only problem.

A funny story:

A buddy of mine was entering the nyc subways years back. The subway was jammed tight but he noticed on the far corner there was a wide opening which no one was standing. So he and his friend elbowed over to this open area to find a homeless guy doing the knuckle shuffle right there in the open!

[conley]

i actually think a large percentage of homeless people are homeless b/c they do suffer from mental illness

and i'm not talking about down in the dumps depression, but full blown schizophrenia and stuff that makes it hard for them to work

i've volunteered in soup kitchens and shelters and you see that stuff on a daily basis

[bored]

i actually think a large percentage of homeless people are homeless b/c they do suffer from mental illness

and i'm not talking about down in the dumps depression, but full blown schizophrenia and stuff that makes it hard for them to work

i've volunteered in soup kitchens and shelters and you see that stuff on a daily basis

That's exactly what the article was saying. Thanks.