U.S. public debt

[Gunit Hussein Sangh]

From the "liberal" U.S. Treasury Department

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo5.htm

09/30/2000 $5,674,178,209,886.86
09/30/2001 $5,807,463,412,200.06
09/30/2002 $6,228,235,965,597.16
09/30/2003 $6,783,231,062,743.62
09/30/2004 $7,379,052,696,330.32
09/30/2005 $7,932,709,661,723.50
09/30/2006 $8,506,973,899,215.23
Current      $9,136,418,062,457.29

For the last 5 years, our total debt outstanding has increased over $500 billion a year. That's bush's tax cuts at work.

And all you can hear from the republican candidates is how they want to make bush's tax cuts permanent or cut taxes more.

[Vermouth]

I assume revenue has increased somewhat, but not as fast as spending? A comparison of military vs domestic spending would also be enlightening.

[SDML]

For the last 5 years, our total debt outstanding has increased over $500 billion a year. That's bush's tax cuts at work.

What a staggeringly un-comprehensive assessment of the issue. Certainly you don't really believe what you just said, and are merely trying to provoke Grumpy into a rant.

[they call me MR. GRUMPY god damn it!]

For the last 5 years, our total debt outstanding has increased over $500 billion a year. That's bush's tax cuts at work.

that is the problem, the govt just doesn't have enough money.  ya just gotta have a bigger teat teaT teAT tEAT TEAT...

[Gunit Hussein Sangh]

Belief has nothing to do with this. The numbers don't lie. When you add in all the "emergency" appropriations bills for bush's grand adventure in Iraq and his faltering efforts in Afghanistan, the money borrowed from Social Security, and the "official" deficit -- bush has been borrowing over a half-trillion dollars a year for the last 5 years.

Why do you think republicans are so anxious to destroy social security? They don't want to be forced into paying back the money they've borrowed from the trust fund!

[they call me MR. GRUMPY god damn it!]

Why do you think republicans are so anxious to destroy social security? They don't want to be forced into paying back the money they've borrowed from the trust fund!

has somebody stole your trust fund?  let me gently rock your cradle so you can go back to sleep.

[SDML]

Belief has nothing to do with this. The numbers don't lie. When you add in all the "emergency" appropriations bills for bush's grand adventure in Iraq and his faltering efforts in Afghanistan, the money borrowed from Social Security, and the "official" deficit -- bush has been borrowing over a half-trillion dollars a year for the last 5 years.

Dude, this has NOTHING to do with your original assertion. You said, and I quote: "For the last 5 years, our total debt outstanding has increased over $500 billion a year. That's bush's tax cuts at work.". That is NOT "Bush's tax cuts at work", that is a combination of factors too numerous to list here that all add up to extreme fiscal irresponsibility on not only Bush's part, but the House & Senate...and, bluntly, every American with an entitlement mentality who keep electing the guy who will give them the most of what belongs to not only themselves, but someone else.

To say it is as simple as Bush's tax cuts is, to put it kindly, WAY oversimplified....to the point of completely inaccurate.

[ghost7]

Most economists aren't that worried about debt as much as the chicken littles with little economics training. The national debt is around .64 of GDP. That means that someone with an annual salary of $100,000 has a debt load of only $64,000. Not that much a debt burden really. I had a 'debt load' of around $60k after undergrad and law school and started out at far less than $100k salary.

Although some of that debt goes to Bush's spending in Iraq remember that a lot of it goes to student loans, university research, education, infrastructure development (roads, highways, bridges), medical research, health care, veterans care, etc.

Here a few graphs to bring a bit more rational focus on the debt load we carry (not excusing Bush's Iraq spending, a different argument). The sky isn't falling regarding national debt:

[they call me MR. GRUMPY god damn it!]

man sdml you just got educated!!

[conley]

ghost7, that is a very interesting post. i never really thought of things in those terms (debt as a percent of gdp) and when you put it like that, it doesn't seem so bad at all. plus there are a lot of other countries in worse shape, take japan for instance.

of course the whole arguement falls apart if us debt is more than .64 of gdp, and i would guess both are hard to measure

[they call me MR. GRUMPY god damn it!]

so the point is that the debt has been worse and could be worse still and some countries are financially more fubar than we?  hey sdml that chicken little shot was at YOU!  ghost7 are you saying the debt is not a problem or not a problem now?  does who our foreign creditors are raise any cause for concern?   

[Gunit Hussein Sangh]

Years ago I foolishly got myself into too much credit card debt. One of the things I learned that if you are borrowing money month after month after month for everyday living expenses -- you got a problem. You can try to spin this anyway you want -- but this country has a debt problem.

And the problems this creates is not just the prospect of having to pay the money back. There's been a couple of times when the US announced deals with Taiwan on various things -- China doesn't show up for a couple of T-bill auctions and guess what -- we change our mind.

We owe so much money to China that they don't even have to fight a war with us. All they have to do is stop loaning us money, sell the debt they already have (which will tank the dollar), and start floating the yuan (or whatever they call their currency). Our economy would crash virtually overnight.

[conley]

true gunnit...but doesnt the entire chinese economy depend on the us? i thought that was the deal...we import all their crappy lead filled exports and it props up both economies? so i would think that if they wanted to declare economic war on the us then china would be severely hurt. similarly if the us cut off chinese imports. this would also explain why both goverments, even though they pretend to dislike each other and the obvious clash in ideals communist vs. capitalist continue to do business with each other, because the almight dollar/yuan rules all

[Gunit Hussein Sangh]

No doubt it would hurt their economy, but I believe they have been developing markets in other countries so that if it ever came to pass that an "economic" war erupted, they would be able to survive it better than us ... after all ... THEY have a lot of money in the bank .. we have only IOU's.

 

[Vermouth]

I'm going to try not to buy stuff from China anymore.