A comment on the ignorance of young voters –

[they call me MR. GRUMPY god damn it!]

We need to end our fetish for the idea that all governments should look like ours.

Absolutely!

positively!!

[Mr. Ed]

And we need to end our fetish for nation-building.  Most, if not all, of our foreign policy disasters have been facilitated through cultural ingnorance.  Obama has a leg up on McCain in this particular, and very crucial, aspect of constructing a foreign policies.

I agree that we should not “nation-build,” at least by the military.  We are unsuited to it. 

I have no problem with nation-defeating.  Once we crushed the military resistance in the initial phase of the war we should have installed another strongman to keep order while we set up strategic bases in the south-eastern desert in order to block any attempts by Iran on the oil fields of the Persian Gulf. 

We've been there and we've done that.  Forget the Shah already?  We're still paying for that.

[spunkloaf]

To touch on the title of the subject--

As a younger person, I don't think it's fair to judge young voters by ignorance.  After all, how many elections and political discussions have young people engaged in so far in their lives?

Young people are sensitive to sub-political concepts dealing with candidates.  For example, young people today must deal with law enforcement on a much bigger and broader scale than young people in the fifties and sixties.  There is definitely a sense of oppression among many, many young people--and when a candidate voices a run for change with more lenient policies on American citizens, young people see that as a gold mine of opportunity.

So I think it is just as prejudiced to talk about young people in this way as it is to talk about races or class groups favoring candidates for their own interests.

[Peter1469]

And we need to end our fetish for nation-building.  Most, if not all, of our foreign policy disasters have been facilitated through cultural ingnorance.  Obama has a leg up on McCain in this particular, and very crucial, aspect of constructing a foreign policies.

I agree that we should not “nation-build,” at least by the military.  We are unsuited to it. 

I have no problem with nation-defeating.  Once we crushed the military resistance in the initial phase of the war we should have installed another strongman to keep order while we set up strategic bases in the south-eastern desert in order to block any attempts by Iran on the oil fields of the Persian Gulf. 

We've been there and we've done that.  Forget the Shah already?  We're still paying for that.

The reason we don’t have the Shah is because of Jimmy Carter- the worst President in American history.  Yes we most definately are still paying for that.   

[Gunit Hussein Sangh]

Spunkloaf -- this is a fact the young has to deal with. Conservatives hate ANYONE who thinks for themselves and doesn't blindly follow the party-line so they have to portray you as an inexperience idiot. It's nothing personal just an ad hominem attack.

Peter -- the Shah was overthrown by an internal revolt. Are you suggesting that Carter should have invaded Iran to protect a brutal, sadistic dictator who made our buddy Saddam look like a kindergarden teacher?

[they call me MR. GRUMPY god damn it!]

Spunkloaf -- this is a fact the young has to deal with. Conservatives hate ANYONE who thinks for themselves and doesn't blindly follow the party-line so they have to portray you as an inexperience idiot. It's nothing personal just an ad hominem attack.

"its nothing personal just an ad hominem attack"   liberal hypocrisy 101

[bored]

To touch on the title of the subject--

As a younger person, I don't think it's fair to judge young voters by ignorance.  After all, how many elections and political discussions have young people engaged in so far in their lives?

Spunkloaf, ignorance isn't necessarily a 'bad' word. It is used to describe someone or some people who don't fully understand something.

Ignorance is a lack of knowledge. Ignorance is also the state of being ignorant or uninformed. For example, "Bill lost the debate because he was ignorant of that subject. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignorance

Peter -- the Shah was overthrown by an internal revolt. Are you suggesting that Carter should have invaded Iran to protect a brutal, sadistic dictator who made our buddy Saddam look like a kindergarden teacher?

I think Peter is referring to the American-backed revolt to remove the Shah and that terrorism became an international problem since. Additionally, the Shah was a brutal dictator, but in comparison to what Iran transformed into the Shah was a saint.

[they call me MR. GRUMPY god damn it!]

to shah or not to shah that was the question

[Peter1469]

I was referring to Carter’s demand to the Shah that he moderate the activities of the SAVAK.  Had the SAVAK still had free rein the Islamic Revolution would have been squashed before it started. 

Unintended consequences struck hard that time.

[Mr. Ed]

And we need to end our fetish for nation-building.  Most, if not all, of our foreign policy disasters have been facilitated through cultural ingnorance.  Obama has a leg up on McCain in this particular, and very crucial, aspect of constructing a foreign policies.

I agree that we should not “nation-build,” at least by the military.  We are unsuited to it. 

I have no problem with nation-defeating.  Once we crushed the military resistance in the initial phase of the war we should have installed another strongman to keep order while we set up strategic bases in the south-eastern desert in order to block any attempts by Iran on the oil fields of the Persian Gulf. 

We've been there and we've done that.  Forget the Shah already?  We're still paying for that.

The reason we don’t have the Shah is because of Jimmy Carter- the worst President in American history.  Yes we most definately are still paying for that.   

The reason we don't have the Shah is because his own people threw him out.  Brutal repression has a shelf life. 

[The Conservative Republican]

There is no logic in supporting Barack Obama. He hasn’t done a single important thing in his political career. Young Democrats are so gullible.

[they call me MR. GRUMPY god damn it!]

There is no logic in supporting Barack Obama. He hasn’t done a single important thing in his political career. Young Democrats are so gullible.

just out of curiosity what "important thing" has mrs bill done in her political career or little mac for that matter??

[The Conservative Republican]

There is no logic in supporting Barack Obama. He hasn’t done a single important thing in his political career. Young Democrats are so gullible.

just out of curiosity what "important thing" has mrs bill done in her political career or little mac for that matter??

Bill and Hillary haven’t done anything, either. McCain is a national hero militarily, but politically…eh. Sure, there was campaign finance reform, but that’s been a failure. Then there’s McCain-Kennedy. And McCain-Lieberman.

Do you notice how he praises Obama and Clinton more in his speeches than other Republicans?

[Mr. Dirlewanger]

Very crafty....

[justsaynotobo]

When I drive to work I have to pass a community college. The dorm windows are visible from the road and I often see small Barack Obama campaign signs while driving by. “Change we can believe in” and the like. I constantly wonder whether or not these students know what they are supporting.

Barack Obama has made change a central theme in his campaign. I do not deny that the senator from Illinois can bring change – it is the type of change that I am more worried about. Every presidential candidate will change this nation one way or another, but it is the kind of change that will define their contributions to the world. Has Barack Obama brought real change during his political career? From what I have read, only one of his bills has been passed by Congress. And what exactly did he do as a state legislator? You never hear about things like this.

A lot of Obama’s supporters come from the college crowd. A lot of Obama’s supporters come from the inebriated, “Whoa, dude, and she, like, lifted her top, and like…!” crowd. A lot of Obama’s supporters come from the equally inebriated, “And I, like, lifted my top, and, like, oh, my God, and like…” crowd. Have you recognized the point I’m trying to make here?

I believe it is time for everybody to realize that Obama will win the presidency this year. The Republican Party is in shambles and there is nothing John McCain can do about it. As a Democrat, shouldn’t I be happy about this?

I am happy and I am not happy. I am happy about the fact that the Democratic Party will obliterate the Republicans in November. I am not happy about the fact that Barack Obama will be leading that revolution. Barack Obama does not have the political experience necessary to lead this nation during these difficult times. There was only one person who had such experience…

Joe Biden.

Joe Biden’s plan to withdraw from Iraq was the most logical and could have been most effective had it been implemented. The bill was supported by nearly 30 Republicans in the Senate. Such bipartisan support cannot be ignored. The carelessly rushed withdrawal advocated by Barack Obama will lead to disaster in the region, and probably in America, as well. But that doesn’t matter. Hope and change. Hope and change. Hope and change.

I wish to go back to the days of Wilson, Roosevelt and Truman. The Democrats of the early- and mid-20th century were actually competent. The Democrats of today – Clinton, Obama, and Dean – are an embarrassment not only to the party but also to the nation.

We may win back the presidency this year, but it will take a very long time for us to win back our principals.

Public surveys have been done where a person asks ppl who have signs some questions such as..what change is BO speaking of...they don't know...what is BOs platform...they don't know...what was his voting record...they don't know..they didn't know anything at all, except he is black...