Poland rejects Homo agenda

[Concerned Citizen]

This is really a very interesting subject for me. I find myself at odds with people that I otherwise agree with on many things. I'm a man that happened to be born gay and am quite conservative in my fiscal views.

For anyone to think there is some kind of "homosexual agenda" is really amusing. I'm often embarrassed by the face that is presented to the public as the "gay community." I have no stomach for public nudity, sexual promiscuity or "in your face" agendas. Whether practiced by gay or str8 people. Yet many assume that all gay people are on a bandwagon to indoctrinate children. It's simply untrue.

My feeling is that most gay people merely want to be left alone to live as they please. And as long as the federal income tax on sweat and talent exists and gay people pay in to it, at least in this country, we feel that we are being denied the same write offs and protection afforded couples in church-sanctioned contracts. We lack the protections to inheritance and visitations, etc. The law should be fair across the board. Regardless of whether church-sanctioned rites are performed or not.

I certainly don't want any kind of federal laws mandating acceptance. We all know how impotent these laws really are. Plus, I'm already protected under the DOI. "...ALL men are created equal..." I want all religious rites and their use as a tool to place some groups over others removed from our laws.

I don't ask that you LIKE what I am. I don't ask that you even think about it. I certainly don't want to force communities to carry gay books. But I also don't want to see legislation AGAINST homosexuals. Of any type, and especially if it's national. Let communities decide how they'd like to proceed with their children's educations.

In the long run, it's education that changes societies perceptions. Legislation rarely proves to be the correct path.

Poland is free to legislate morality if her people allow it. The legislation of morality does pose a serious threat to freedom though. Whose morality should be legislated? The people cheering on the legislation against groups that they feel deserve to be legislated against may later find themselves on the other side of the laws. It's a slippery slope.

[wow]

Citizen,

My feeling is that most gay people merely want to be left alone to live as they please.
we feel that we are being denied the same write offs and protection afforded couples in church-sanctioned contracts. We lack the protections to inheritance and visitations, etc.

I find it interesting that your statements are in conflict of each other.
More hypocrisy: Marriage is a religious ceremony sanctioned by the Govt.

[they call me MR. GRUMPY god damn it!]

whether you were born gay or this abnormality was achieved thru some environmental/socialization factor is only relevant if we were discussing a cure.  we are not and and therefore i could care less about the causes of homosexuality.  at the same time i do recognize that whatever the origins, homosexuality is the manifestation of some psycho/sexual short circuit.  regardless of your desire to be left alone there does exist a large and active gay movement that desires society's acceptance of homosexuality as a normal expression of human sexuality.  this is where i and many others say no.  with regard to your assertion of rights denied, i disagree.  i cannot under the law marry a man and neither can you!  we are treated the same.  the gay community's desire for marriage rights is about legitimizing something that most americans recognize as fundamentally illegitimate.  you want society to broadly abandon values, moral beliefs and traditions to accommodate your itch of the day.  the argument re legislating morality is specious, all law is to some degree a reflection of that society's values, moral beliefs and traditions.  the slippery slope is believing in nothing, embracing everything and falling for anything. 

[Mr. Dirlewanger]

Well everything Grumpy just said and a question: LIberal guys and gals love to use the phrase legislating morality . Does anyone know when that was originally used? You might be surprised and all the more so because Citizen (and I would imagine many other liberals) know just how impotent these laws really are.

Citizen said:

Let communities decide how they'd like to proceed with their children's educations.

I agree with this.

[conley]

Citizen

did anyone have any AC flashbacks when they read this?!

AC used to call everyone citizen

 

(yes i know wow was just calling this dude by his posting handle, but i still thought it was funny)

[Mr. Dirlewanger]

Citizen

did anyone have any AC flashbacks when they read this?!

AC used to call everyone citizen

 

(yes i know wow was just calling this dude by his posting handle, but i still thought it was funny)

He used to say handle all the time too. 

You gotta love creepy gay avatars

[conley]

 

you're hardly to be one who should talk about creepy avatars.

the original mister dirlewanger photo you had is about creepy as it gets! 

[Mr. Dirlewanger]

you're hardly to be one who should talk about creepy avatars.

the original mister dirlewanger photo you had is about creepy as it gets! 

hmmm...yeah the original Mr. D was pretty creepy. I don't know what I was thinking.

[spunkloaf]

That's the problem, though.

Do we as a country stand for what is right, or what is morally accepted?

I think moral values is all the right side has to hold on to, and they are slipping fast because people are fed up with it.  They want something new.  Out with the old.

You speak of gay being an "abnormality"...as if YOU are normal.

Tell me, what makes you so "normal" as opposed to others?

Do you see the arrogance and narcissistic nature of that?  Well, I do.  It says "Be normal, be straight, be Christian and white--and we might be able to share this planet and breathe the same air."

Fuck your guys' bullshit; and go lynch each other.

Concerned Citizen, keep it going man.  Show the world WHY you're a fucking liberal.   Break the beast.

[spunkloaf]

I understand that people have the freedom to hate whomever they choose, but I always thought that freedom would inspire people to accept one another for who the fuck they are, instead of asking them to live a lie based on society's preferences.  Fuck all that, and fuck people who think that way.  You're cancer to humanity, and to God.

[they call me MR. GRUMPY god damn it!]

spunk i am pretty sure that i did not say anything about hating gays if that is what you are attempting to imply.  with regard to normal/abnormal...while it might defy hard definition, still most people generally recognize it when they see it.  so here is the argument in a nutshell.  you believe that a guy wanting to take a dick up his ass is normal, i do not.  still i do believe that whatever you and citizen might want to do to one another in the privacy of your own home is your own business, provided that you are both consenting adults.  this thread began as a discussion regarding the schools pushing the acceptance of homosexuality and my response was that i did not see why homosexuality needed to be addressed in the public schools! 

[spunkloaf]

But grumpy...what about two women 69ing each other?  That's acceptable, right?  Because they are women, and we like women!

Kids who are gay grow to be suppressed, fucked up people because they have to hide themselves.  Or they just commit suicide, one of the two.

And I'm not saying we should have a gay teacher come in and try to tell kids they should be gay.  That would be ridiculous.

Just a short sentence or two would be enough, to let kids know that it happens and that it is nothing to be afraid of and not ok to ridicule.

Anybody know a school counselor?  Ask one how many depressed kids they need to counsel each day about sexual issues, and then ask how many of those sexual issues have to do with homosexuality.

The problem is that we've got kids growing up thinking their thoughts are not normal, or that they are not adequate.  Another problem, is that there are other students who grow up believing that they are perfectly normal, except they gang up on and harass people who are not "normal".  I'm only five years out of high school, I know how that shit works--and it's probably worse now than when I went there.

Kids are vicious, and they need the right information.  Denying students the truth about homosexuality, or ANYTHING sexually, is an entirely hate-driven religious idea to keep this country white, Christian, straight, and ultimately snobbish.

Any of you have kids?  Ever wonder if maybe they are gay, but afraid to burnt hell to tell you about it?  How would that make you feel?  Would you disown them, or deny it altogether because you and your family are so perfect?

People obviously have a passion to suppress gay people and hate them, otherwise it would be no big deal to talk about it.
Think about it, because shit never seems to affect people unless it's all over their shoes.

[spunkloaf]

you believe that a guy wanting to take a dick up his ass is normal, i do not.  still i do believe that whatever you and citizen might want to do to one another in the privacy of your own home is your own business, provided that you are both consenting adults.

You're getting way too graphic there, buddy.  Maybe that's your issue, is that you can't simply imagine 2 guys living together--your mind has to go the full nine yards, and you have to imagine them having sex--particularly, anal sex.

Again said, if it were two FEMALES living together and touching, and kissing--and maybe even getting married, your mind would have no trouble going the nine yards, or even 120 yards.

Nobody can escape hypocrisy here and there, but yours and others' on this issue befuddles me.
As far as your comments regarding citizen and I "doing stuff" to each other, I think you need some new porn to watch because your imagination is drifting way off on that one.

[they call me MR. GRUMPY god damn it!]

spunk if i have to explain to you why, how two women "69ing" each other is a beautiful thing to be encouraged and hopefully participated in....it's just a guy thing that you would not understand.  regardless, what is the truth about homosexuality and who's truth do you want taught??  if you teach my truth then your suppressed/depressed children would be jumping off bridges at a much earlier age.  so clearly it is not my personal opinions re homosexuality that you want shared with school age children.  the truth is that homosexuality is fucked up. pedophilia is fucked up, incest is fucked up, polygamy is fucked up, prostitution is fucked up..... you're fucked up!

[spunkloaf]

Homosexuality is not fucked up.

You, and all others with your likeness of mind, just want the world to be easier to deal with, and that means having more people you easily agree with.  Now who's being the lazy one?

YOU are fucked up.  Happy 420.