So Helpless

[spunkloaf]

Then I am the furthest away from the classic and current view of conservatism, and I think that people who only care about themselves are assholes--plain and simple.  Sure, it's natural to care about your family--but it takes guts to stick your neck out for people you don't know.  My opinion is that people who sit at home and care only about their family, in some hope that they are going to survive this world alone with nobody else's help, is dumb.  People need people, and that extends way beyond just family.

It is not a moral law (and thank God) but an unwritten pact between humans.  We are here for each other.

[Peter1469]

Adam Smith’s invisible hand theory:   http://plus.maths.org/issue14/features/smith/

The point is not that you only care about yourself and your family- the point is that you focus on making yourself, your family, and immediate neighborhood the best that it can be.  If everyone does that society will prosper.  The contrary position is that we use the coercive power of the State to get people to act contrary to their natures.  Statists may have pure motives, but the unintended consequences of their policies lead to more misery than do the policies of those who advocate individual responsibility. 

 

[spunkloaf]

Well that's awesome.  So why do people act like assholes about it?

I think that theory is flawed because there seems to be no unity.  No understanding, and no kinship.  It's all for themselves, and nobody cares about the greater good.

 

[Peter1469]

Well that's awesome.  So why do people act like assholes about it?

I think that theory is flawed because there seems to be no unity.  No understanding, and no kinship.  It's all for themselves, and nobody cares about the greater good.

 

That is the paradox of the Invisible Hand theory.  Basically it is contrary to human nature of large groups to work together for the benefit of all (who’s idea of right do we implement; what do we do with those that don’t agree.)  But if everyone in a large group focuses on their best-interests (along with family and friends) it all works out in the end.

So the theory goes.  It certainly works in economics.  That is the basis for the modern free-market.  I of course believe in some regulation to prevent the assholes from taking advantage of the rest.

Have you ever read the Parable of the Pencil?  It is hard to find a good copy on the net since there have been so much misinformation on it, but in short it describes the thousands of separate things that must happen in order to make 1 number two pencil.  It proves the impossible task of a command economy to effectively make the pencil. 

[spunkloaf]

Never have read it.  Sounds interesting. When I am able to, I shall consider it.  Is there an online version of it?  I do better with that than books--it took me 5 months to read 1984.  I'm horrible.

[conley]

Adam Smith’s invisible hand theory:   http://plus.maths.org/issue14/features/smith/

The point is not that you only care about yourself and your family- the point is that you focus on making yourself, your family, and immediate neighborhood the best that it can be.  If everyone does that society will prosper.  The contrary position is that we use the coercive power of the State to get people to act contrary to their natures.  Statists may have pure motives, but the unintended consequences of their policies lead to more misery than do the policies of those who advocate individual responsibility. 

 

i think this theory may have worked at least on a family level. taking care of family was not only altruistic but you could benefit from investment down the line.

these days at least in our society we have the collapse of the family unit so it is probably no longer profitable to invest in your own

[spunkloaf]

That is a good point.
Don't get me wrong, I would always put my family before people I don't know.  But I think some people get the wrong idea, and end up stepping on others' heads to get the best for their family, or themselves.

That don't work.

[Peter1469]

Never have read it.  Sounds interesting. When I am able to, I shall consider it.  Is there an online version of it?  I do better with that than books--it took me 5 months to read 1984.  I'm horrible.

Here it is: http://www.econlib.org/library/Essays/rdPncl1.html 


Here is part of the introduction

I am a lead pencil—the ordinary wooden pencil familiar to all boys and girls and adults who can read and write.
***

I, Pencil, simple though I appear to be, merit your wonder and awe, a claim I shall attempt to prove. In fact, if you can understand me—no, that's too much to ask of anyone—if you can become aware of the miraculousness which I symbolize, you can help save the freedom mankind is so unhappily losing. I have a profound lesson to teach. And I can teach this lesson better than can an automobile or an airplane or a mechanical dishwasher because—well, because I am seemingly so simple.

Simple? Yet, not a single person on the face of this earth knows how to make me. This sounds fantastic, doesn't it? Especially when it is realized that there are about one and one-half billion of my kind produced in the U.S.A. each year.

[spunkloaf]

Never have read it.  Sounds interesting. When I am able to, I shall consider it.  Is there an online version of it?  I do better with that than books--it took me 5 months to read 1984.  I'm horrible.

Here it is: http://www.econlib.org/library/Essays/rdPncl1.html 


Here is part of the introduction

I am a lead pencil—the ordinary wooden pencil familiar to all boys and girls and adults who can read and write.
***

I, Pencil, simple though I appear to be, merit your wonder and awe, a claim I shall attempt to prove. In fact, if you can understand me—no, that's too much to ask of anyone—if you can become aware of the miraculousness which I symbolize, you can help save the freedom mankind is so unhappily losing. I have a profound lesson to teach. And I can teach this lesson better than can an automobile or an airplane or a mechanical dishwasher because—well, because I am seemingly so simple.

Simple? Yet, not a single person on the face of this earth knows how to make me. This sounds fantastic, doesn't it? Especially when it is realized that there are about one and one-half billion of my kind produced in the U.S.A. each year.

It feels like Sesame Street all over again. 

I am going to read this for sure--but not on this computer because it sucks.  I get MY computer back hopefully by the end of this week.  I am saving the link though, thanks for finding it.

[bored]

Then I am the furthest away from the classic and current view of conservatism, and I think that people who only care about themselves are assholes--plain and simple.  Sure, it's natural to care about your family--but it takes guts to stick your neck out for people you don't know.  My opinion is that people who sit at home and care only about their family, in some hope that they are going to survive this world alone with nobody else's help, is dumb.  People need people, and that extends way beyond just family.

It is not a moral law (and thank God) but an unwritten pact between humans.  We are here for each other.

Well that's awesome.  So why do people act like assholes about it?

I think that theory is flawed because there seems to be no unity.  No understanding, and no kinship.  It's all for themselves, and nobody cares about the greater good.

 

That's not true. That is you're own interpretation of it which I believe you are misunderstanding. Yes, of course there are assholes. Not as many as you would think though. And certainly not solely a statistic of the right. People are generally good and helpful to each other but even the left has to draw the line as to how far to help others. i.e. Welfare.

[spunkloaf]

Then I am the furthest away from the classic and current view of conservatism, and I think that people who only care about themselves are assholes--plain and simple.  Sure, it's natural to care about your family--but it takes guts to stick your neck out for people you don't know.  My opinion is that people who sit at home and care only about their family, in some hope that they are going to survive this world alone with nobody else's help, is dumb.  People need people, and that extends way beyond just family.

It is not a moral law (and thank God) but an unwritten pact between humans.  We are here for each other.

Well that's awesome.  So why do people act like assholes about it?

I think that theory is flawed because there seems to be no unity.  No understanding, and no kinship.  It's all for themselves, and nobody cares about the greater good.

 

That's not true. That is you're own interpretation of it which I believe you are misunderstanding. Yes, of course there are assholes. Not as many as you would think though. And certainly not solely a statistic of the right. People are generally good and helpful to each other but even the left has to draw the line as to how far to help others. i.e. Welfare.

I hope to God that you are correct, because most conservatives I have met ARE assholes.  They don't give you the time of day if they don't agree with you.  They'd rather see you burn.

[conley]

Then I am the furthest away from the classic and current view of conservatism, and I think that people who only care about themselves are assholes--plain and simple.  Sure, it's natural to care about your family--but it takes guts to stick your neck out for people you don't know.  My opinion is that people who sit at home and care only about their family, in some hope that they are going to survive this world alone with nobody else's help, is dumb.  People need people, and that extends way beyond just family.

It is not a moral law (and thank God) but an unwritten pact between humans.  We are here for each other.

Well that's awesome.  So why do people act like assholes about it?

I think that theory is flawed because there seems to be no unity.  No understanding, and no kinship.  It's all for themselves, and nobody cares about the greater good.

 

That's not true. That is you're own interpretation of it which I believe you are misunderstanding. Yes, of course there are assholes. Not as many as you would think though. And certainly not solely a statistic of the right. People are generally good and helpful to each other but even the left has to draw the line as to how far to help others. i.e. Welfare.

I hope to God that you are correct, because most conservatives I have met ARE assholes.  They don't give you the time of day if they don't agree with you.  They'd rather see you burn.

i agree with what bored says, i do believe most people, and most americans are generally good and helpful to each other.

conversely, i also think people on the internet are way more rude and obnoxious toward each other than they would be in real life.

[bored]

Then I am the furthest away from the classic and current view of conservatism, and I think that people who only care about themselves are assholes--plain and simple.  Sure, it's natural to care about your family--but it takes guts to stick your neck out for people you don't know.  My opinion is that people who sit at home and care only about their family, in some hope that they are going to survive this world alone with nobody else's help, is dumb.  People need people, and that extends way beyond just family.

It is not a moral law (and thank God) but an unwritten pact between humans.  We are here for each other.

Well that's awesome.  So why do people act like assholes about it?

I think that theory is flawed because there seems to be no unity.  No understanding, and no kinship.  It's all for themselves, and nobody cares about the greater good.

 

That's not true. That is you're own interpretation of it which I believe you are misunderstanding. Yes, of course there are assholes. Not as many as you would think though. And certainly not solely a statistic of the right. People are generally good and helpful to each other but even the left has to draw the line as to how far to help others. i.e. Welfare.

I hope to God that you are correct, because most conservatives I have met ARE assholes.  They don't give you the time of day if they don't agree with you.  They'd rather see you burn.

Most of the people I would classify as the asshole scum are criminals. People who "really" take something from society. Of course this varies through all aspects of society. Others would be people who are just outright disrespectful and rude though they don't physically harm anyone. They are just annoying and pointless.

[bored]

i agree with what bored says, i do believe most people, and most americans are generally good and helpful to each other.

conversely, i also think people on the internet are way more rude and obnoxious toward each other than they would be in real life.

Those people are usually kids (not necessarily) who hide behind anonymity. Harmless, though annoying.

[spunkloaf]

i agree with what bored says, i do believe most people, and most americans are generally good and helpful to each other.

conversely, i also think people on the internet are way more rude and obnoxious toward each other than they would be in real life.

Those people are usually kids (not necessarily) who hide behind anonymity. Harmless, though annoying.

Then maybe I am just too sensitive to conservative pricks.

But I was gonna say, Ann Coulter and Bill OReilly ought to be shot.  Just my opinion.