This Board a Haven for Leftys.

[OswaldTheOsprey]

No, not at all. We expel them with due reparations.

This seems quite contrary to our national ideals.

Our national ideals do not, or at least should not, include promoting stupidity.

OswaldTheOsprey

[Scaybeeez]

Our national ideals do not, or at least should not, include promoting stupidity.

By "promoting stupidity" you mean "allowing people the freedom to choose for themselves whether they would like to reproduce"?

[Scaybeeez]

How does eugenics have to make murder more appealing? Ever hear of deportation? Jack London was a great American author and spot on about socialism to boot.

Because bullets are a hell of a lot cheaper than airplane tickets?  Or perhaps because it is human nature to cut corners whenever one feels they can get away with it?  Or perhaps because, as we've seen play out over and over and over again throughout human history, once you designate a group as subhuman, or as less than you, violence against them almost always becomes easier to commit?

Jack London was shortsighted on socialism and his worker's paradise in Russia became a living nightmare...

[OswaldTheOsprey]

How does eugenics have to make murder more appealing? Ever hear of deportation? Jack London was a great American author and spot on about socialism to boot.

Because bullets are a hell of a lot cheaper than airplane tickets?  Or perhaps because it is human nature to cut corners whenever one feels they can get away with it?  Or perhaps because, as we've seen play out over and over and over again throughout human history, once you designate a group as subhuman, or as less than you, violence against them almost always becomes easier to commit?

Jack London was shortsighted on socialism and his worker's paradise in Russia became a living nightmare...

What I propose, and have discussed in another thread, is decentralizing the US and allowing more localization. You could have a number of small areas where people of like mind unite to pursue goal: fascist, marxist, libertarian, religious etc. I am not proposing it for the US.

Jack London died in 1916 and the Bolshevik Revolution was in 1917. You may have him confused with John Reed-portrayed in the movie "Reds" by Warren Beatty.

OswaldTheOsprey

[Mr. Dirlewanger]

Based on 37 samples across 1530 people, the population correlation was estimated at 0.33. The
correlation is higher for females than males. It is also higher for adults than children. For all age and sex groups, it
is clear that brain volume is positively correlated with intelligence[/i]

You'll have to forgive me here, as I've never been too keen on scientific terminology.  With that said...if the population correlation is estimated at 0.33, does that then mean a correlation can be seen roughly one-third of the time?

When comparing different species the ratio of brain weight to body weight does present a correlation with intelligence, though the actual brain weight has little or no effect. For example, the ratio of brain weight to body weight for fish is 1:5000; for reptiles it is about 1:1500; for birds, 1:220; for most mammals, 1:180, and for humans, 1:50. However within the human species modern studies using MRI have shown that brain size shows substantial and consistent correlation ( r = .35 to .43 in various studies) with IQ among adults of the same sex [1] Some scientists prefer to look at more qualitative variables such to relate the size of measurable regions of known function. For example relating the size of the primary visual cortex to its corresponding functions, that of visual performance.[1][2].

To me, this sends up a red flag.  A correlation between slightly larger brain size within a species and intelligence can only be found in the human animal? 

Or has no one taken the time to measure these things in other animals?

Lynn also notes some anomalies in the cold winter theory of intelligence. The most striking: the Inuit, exposed to the coldest winter temperatures, have a brain size equal to East Asians, and yet have an average IQ of only 91. To explain this anomaly, Lynn proposes that additional genetic processes are important—such as population size. The larger the network of co-operating and competing population groups ("demes"), the faster any mutations for advantageous alleles can spread. So large landmass groups like East Asians and Europeans average higher IQs than isolated hunter-gatherer groups like the Inuit.

I assume you predicted this response, but rather than theorize about a lack of genetic mutation being the cause, one could just as easily look at the explanations that are right in front of their eyes.  Poverty, lack of available educational options, etc.

.33 represents a significant correlation. I'm not familiar with the terminology either, frankly.

It sends up a red flag?  Anyway you slice it there does appear to be a correlation between brain size/volume and IQ. The question seems to be one of qualitative vs. quantitative volume. I'm not a scientist, Scaybeeez. I'm just reporting the research results...

Eskimos have a higher average IQ than African Americans...

Last, the only thing I could predict about your responses was your reactionary attitude.

[Peter1469]

I haven’t seen anything on this lately, but don’t women have a slightly smaller brain than men?  What of their average IQs? 

[Scaybeeez]

What I propose, and have discussed in another thread, is decentralizing the US and allowing more localization. You could have a number of small areas where people of like mind unite to pursue goal: fascist, marxist, libertarian, religious etc. I am not proposing it for the US.

Jack London died in 1916 and the Bolshevik Revolution was in 1917. You may have him confused with John Reed-portrayed in the movie "Reds" by Warren Beatty.

I see.  Well, we allow states to experiment to some degree, and I do agree that that can be beneficial.  If not for the U.S., then where?  And don't you think there's an increased risk of communities running amok and tramping upon the basic rights of their people in such settings?

Also, though he didn't live to see it, he advocated and romanticized a socialist revolution.  As I said earlier, pretty shortsighted of him.

[Scaybeeez]

.33 represents a significant correlation. I'm not familiar with the terminology either, frankly.

Near as I can tell, the research indicates a correlation a third of the time.  Which, I don't know...doesn't really blow me away.  It means that two-thirds of the time, there isn't a correlation, or even, possibly, that plenty of big brained people are less intelligent than most others.

Also, perhaps you responded to this earlier and I missed it - if that's the case, my apologies - but I haven't turned up anything that proves this "the Chinese have bigger brains" argument.  Granted, I only looked for a few minutes.  Can you point me in the right direction here?

It sends up a red flag?  Anyway you slice it there does appear to be a correlation between brain size/volume and IQ. The question seems to be one of qualitative vs. quantitative volume. I'm not a scientist, Scaybeeez. I'm just reporting the research results...

Well, it sends up a red flag because, as humans are animals, you'd think you'd see something similar in other animals.  But you don't - at least not as far as anyone knows.  To me, that means we ought to pause there, and rethink some things.  One ought to check back to see if the testing might be skewed in some way, or to conduct research with non-human animals, etc.  Either way, I would consider this research to be a start, not a conclusion.

Eskimos have a higher average IQ than African Americans...

Which might also be explained by external factors, like a lack of serious social disruptions, like civil wars or famines for the Eskimo...

[Peter1469]

I am not so sure if testing is the culprit.  I point to cultural differences.  Some cultures value education more than others.  That should result in better scores on average.  This seems to be true for academics and possibly is true for IQ tests.  Just my 2 cents.

[OswaldTheOsprey]

What I propose, and have discussed in another thread, is decentralizing the US and allowing more localization. You could have a number of small areas where people of like mind unite to pursue goal: fascist, marxist, libertarian, religious etc. I am not proposing it for the US.

Jack London died in 1916 and the Bolshevik Revolution was in 1917. You may have him confused with John Reed-portrayed in the movie "Reds" by Warren Beatty.

I see.  Well, we allow states to experiment to some degree, and I do agree that that can be beneficial.  If not for the U.S., then where?  And don't you think there's an increased risk of communities running amok and tramping upon the basic rights of their people in such settings?

Also, though he didn't live to see it, he advocated and romanticized a socialist revolution.  As I said earlier, pretty shortsighted of him.

There are several types of socialism-Bolshevism is an extreme example. Many of the bitterest foes of the Soviet Union were socialist such as Norman Thomas.

OswaldTheOsprey

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Thomas

[Mr. Dirlewanger]

Scaybeeez


From what I understand .33 represents the percentage of time when differences in intellect can be attributed to nothing but brain size/volume. They seem to be pretty sure it is significant. I can see why.

Again, I am no scientist. I'm just reporting the results.

I posted this before. I think this is where I saw the bigger Chinese brains claim:

http://www.charlesdarwinresearch.org/Race_Evolution_Behavior.pdf

Considering the preponderance of evidence for racial IQ differences and the remarkable consistency of the research results worldwide I think it is high time we stop the nonsense.

 

[Mr. Dirlewanger]

I am not so sure if testing is the culprit.  I point to cultural differences.  Some cultures value education more than others.  That should result in better scores on average.  This seems to be true for academics and possibly is true for IQ tests.  Just my 2 cents.

The important point to understand is that your culture is partly genetic. Culture is at least to some extent a reflection of our adaptations.

[Scaybeeez]

Considering the preponderance of evidence for racial IQ differences and the remarkable consistency of the research results worldwide I think it is high time we stop the nonsense.

Thanks for the link.  You may want to check out this reply to Rushton, which indicates that the consistency  might not actually be there.  It also calls into question the methods Rushton used to determine brain size.

http://www.cpa.ca/cpasite/userfiles/documents/publications/cjep/petertxt.htm

[Mr. Dirlewanger]

Considering the preponderance of evidence for racial IQ differences and the remarkable consistency of the research results worldwide I think it is high time we stop the nonsense.

Thanks for the link.  You may want to check out this reply to Rushton, which indicates that the consistency  might not actually be there.  It also calls into question the methods Rushton used to determine brain size.

http://www.cpa.ca/cpasite/userfiles/documents/publications/cjep/petertxt.htm

Apparently, Peters and Rushton have gone back and forth quite a bit.

http://www.prometheism.net/articles/brainsize.html

http://www.arthurhu.com/2000/02/baby.txt

I can't argue the methodology with you or anyone else. I've seen other criticism of Rushton and Lynn as well.

At least Peters admits that racial differenes in IQ are real, observable facts.

Here is more recent research regarding brain size.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2005-12/mu-bbs122205.php

[Scaybeeez]

There are several types of socialism-Bolshevism is an extreme example. Many of the bitterest foes of the Soviet Union were socialist such as Norman Thomas.

Hey, that's a fair enough point.  I agree with ya there.  Though I still contend that the type of socialism (or, at least, the path to socialism) envisioned by Jack London was a bit short sighted, at least from what one can glean from the Iron Heel...