War on OPEC

[Peter1469]

The US should pass a law tomorrow that mandates that all cars sold in the US must have flex fuel engines.  If engines could run off gasoline, ethanol, and methanol, there would be competition that would drive the price of oil down, down, down.  And this engine could easily be a hybrid engine.  http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/01/02/robert-zubrin-talks-about-requiring-all-cars-to-be-flex-fuel-cap/ If the US passed this law the Japs and Euro automakers would comply rather than lose the US market.

Methanol (wood alcohol) is currently around $1.62 per gallon.  However, it is only 55% as efficient as gasoline.  So effectively methanol is $2.80 per gallon.  If cars could run off methanol it would eventually drive gasoline prices down to $2.80 per gallon and keep it there.  Methanol is very easy to produce.  You can make it from coal, food crop residue, and wood.  http://www.energyquest.ca.gov/transportation/alcohols.html

Methanol plants and ethanol plants are not that expensive to make.  Add some pumps at stations and the war with OPEC is on. 

Also if you have an old car add this to the engine: http://www.hhowater4gas.com/

This would be the greatest blow that we could deal to the Middle East, short of a nuclear missile volley. 

[they call me MR. GRUMPY god damn it!]

yes i have been debating this with people forever.  if the govt is going to mandate, this is the one.  then just step back and let the private sector do what the private sector does.

[Peter1469]

In this case I would approve of a government mandate.  First because energy costs are a national security issue; second because car companies will only release such vehicles one at a time over a long period of time- this will not create the war on OPEC that I desire; third, because I want to be able to see the Middle East descend into irrelevance in my lifetime. 

[BIGTEX]

NOW HEAR THIS!

The ethanol/methanol promoters are just that - PROMOTERS!  They are Al Gore in straw hats and overalls.

IT COSTS MORE ENERGY UNITS TO PRODUCE A GALLON OF ETHANOL FROM CORN THAN THE ENERGY UNITS DERIVED FROM THE CORN.

IT'S THE SAME FOR METHANOL!!!!!

THE QUICKEST WAY TO BECOME EVEN MORE DEPENDENT ON FOREIGN OIL IS TO BE STUPID ENOUGH TO FALL FOR THE METHANOL/ETHANOL SCAM!

[Peter1469]

I acknowledged that methanol is 55% as effective as gasoline.  However, if all engines can use gasoline, ethanol, or methanol and each energy source is available, then there will be competition to drive the price of oil down.

Why would you be against that? 

[BIGTEX]

Because YOU ARE USING MORE OIL TO PRODUCE THE METHANOL/ETHANOL than if you used the  same oil to make gasoline to power your vehicle.

[conley]

big tex is right

ethanol is a huge scam. the farmers in iowa appreciate the subsidies though.

 

[Peter1469]

Why do you have to use oil to produce methanol?

http://www.setamericafree.org/

http://www.setamericafree.org/blueprint.pdf

Methanol is produced with biomass, natural gas, waste, or coal.  Natural gas or coal can fuel the plant uses to turn the raw product into fuel.  

http://energyvictory.net/index.htm
You can find a ppt presentation under the presentation/charts link to find all of the numbers, graphs, and charts.  

Robert Zubrin has spoken before Congress about his plan and legislation is being drafted to implement the plans.  The list of those that vote no will be published, so stay tuned.  (I will be out of the loop after today until I am back home around 2 July.)

The point is that the US has a small percentage of the oil.  That puts us at a strategic disadvantage.  If we branch into other energy sources we can negate this weakness.  


I am not an ethanol fan- the point is to create competition to oil to crush OPEC.  Would you prefer all energy dollars going to the Middle East?

[they call me MR. GRUMPY god damn it!]

doesn't congress have plans to sue opec??  now that's waging war dem/lib style.

[Peter1469]

I did hear something about that.  Sounds like welfare for lawyers to me.  I would bill Congress $350 an hour (plus expenses) for that case. 

[BIGTEX]

Are you aware that the price of natural gas in the USA has more than doubled over the past year?

BIGTEX has been in the oil/gas/coal business for many years, and, to date, THERE IS NO VIABLE ALTERNATIVE - save for nuclear power- TO THEM.

Approximately 27% of the U. S. corn crop is used to produce ethanol, which accounts for less than 4% of our motor fuel needs.

In other words, if ALL the USA's corn was used for ethanol, it would only amount to less than 16% of motor fuel in this nation.

Are you ALSO aware that methanol/ethanol cannot be transported by pipelines (the most efficient means of delivering fuel to recipients) due to corrosion problems?

METHANOL FOR FUEL IS A SCAM, SCAM, SCAM.

Likewise for ETHANOL.

Alchemists for years tried to make gold from lead.  That same notion is what fuels the methanol/ethanol scam.

Please get over it.

[conley]

i'd actually be in favor of nuclear power...to me that is a lot less dangerous than funding terrorists with our petrodollars

[Peter1469]

I am not suggesting that we eliminate oil.  I am merely suggesting that we create competition for oil.  I have little hope for ethanol.  Methanol, however can be made from non-food crops (I mean the part that we eat). 

I agree that alchemist never were able to turn lead into gold.  However, alcohol based fuels are fact. 

All that I am seeking is healthy competition to improve our national security (at the expense of OPEC nations).   

[conley]

totally agree...cut off the need for ME oil and this country will be more secure and successful than ever. and the ME can blow itself up with infighting, since it seems that's what most of the people over there want. NOP (not our problem)

[they call me MR. GRUMPY god damn it!]

gotta agree i like a flex fuel mandate coupled with the acquisition of our own petroleum resources and the transition of our cities to nuclear energy.