Jump start

[AC]

Topping Congress’s agenda as it returns this week is a plan to “jump-start the economy and try to shorten the slowdown that many economists say has already begun to take hold.”

Today, Rep. Eric Cantor (VA), the chief deputy Republican whip in the House, unveiled his proposal to stimulate the economy. His legislation - the so-called Middle Class Job Protection Act - does nothing for the middle class. Instead, it reduces the corporate tax rate by 25 percent.

At a press conference today unveiling the stimulus proposal, Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN) justified the conservative plan to give tax breaks to corporations - instead of working Americans - by arguing that people actually like working long hours:

I am so proud to be from the state of Minnesota. We’re the workingest state in the country, and the reason why we are, we have more people that are working longer hours, we have people that are working two jobs.

Bachmann’s version of the American Dream is apparently working two full-time jobs and struggling to get by.

Hear that, John Edwards?   Americans like working two jobs so corporations can get tax breaks.  Two Americas, indeed.

Nicole Belle  1/17/08

[conley]

who wrote this? not you ac?

i would hope by now people realize this crazy idea of republican tax breaks to corportations and the rich does NOT help the overall economy at all. it hurts all but the richest one percent of americans id say. the definition of madness is to keep repeating the same action and expect a different outcome. it looks like these congressional republicans have all gone mad. or perhaps they are just lying to fill their own pockets. either way a sad commentary on american politics.

[they call me MR. GRUMPY god damn it!]

who wrote this? not you ac?

i would hope by now people realize this crazy idea of republican tax breaks to corportations and the rich does NOT help the overall economy at all. it hurts all but the richest one percent of americans id say. the definition of madness is to keep repeating the same action and expect a different outcome. it looks like these congressional republicans have all gone mad. or perhaps they are just lying to fill their own pockets. either way a sad commentary on american politics.

look i am for cutting EVERYBODY'S taxes and when you create jobs for others then we'll move you to the top of the list.   

[conley]

who wrote this? not you ac?

i would hope by now people realize this crazy idea of republican tax breaks to corportations and the rich does NOT help the overall economy at all. it hurts all but the richest one percent of americans id say. the definition of madness is to keep repeating the same action and expect a different outcome. it looks like these congressional republicans have all gone mad. or perhaps they are just lying to fill their own pockets. either way a sad commentary on american politics.

look i am for cutting EVERYBODY'S taxes and when you create jobs for others then we'll move you to the top of the list.   

by 'create jobs for others' do you mean 'create jobs for indians, pakistanis, chinese, etc?' because thats where these greedy bastards seem to be sending our jobs!

there havent been many jobs created recently in the good ol us of a unfortunately

it is obvious to anyone that the economic is not working right now!

[they call me MR. GRUMPY god damn it!]

ah but that is a different conversation.  clearly this economy is evolving and the nature of that evolution should concern everyone.  the loss of manufacturing capacity for whatever reason is to me a long term national security issue.  we cannot be just a nation of consumers.  the argument that education is the answer ignores the fact that education in this country sucks and that a large number or people will never be suited for hi tech industries regardless of education.  as we moved from an agrarian society to an industrial one the upheaval was a hiccup.  why?  because the basic skill set required remained the same.   can we reverse this trend and how do we do so and stay attached to free market principles? 

[conley]

ah but that is a different conversation.  clearly this economy is evolving and the nature of that evolution should concern everyone.  the loss of manufacturing capacity for whatever reason is to me a long term national security issue.  we cannot be just a nation of consumers.  the argument that education is the answer ignores the fact that education in this country sucks and that a large number or people will never be suited for hi tech industries regardless of education.  as we moved from an agrarian society to an industrial one the upheaval was a hiccup.  why?  because the basic skill set required remained the same.   can we reverse this trend and how do we do so and stay attached to free market principles? 

that's some heavy intellectual stuff. who would have expected something like that in a thread started by ac?

i agree the issues are complex. i am not as convinced that losing the manufacturing jobs is a security issue. why is that so? if youre talking about the building of aircraft and armaments then yes i agree but the us isnt going to let that go i hope. in this day and age anything is possible...we could have f-16s being built in mexico thanks to nafta?

i dont think the us is just a nation of consumers, i think the us produces 'brain power' if that makes sense. i keep reading and hearing that the education in this country is terrible and yet at least until the last few years this country and its corporations were doing very well. in the eighties everyone was concerned because the japanese were going to beat us, and now its the chinese who are going to over take the us. i just dont see it.

i also dont think that basic high tech jobs are that different from working on an assembly line or on a farm. take the guys who go around wiring up computer networks. i dont know a lot about it but they basically have some tools and they put down the lines either in the crawlspace or underground, etc. right? at least these jobs exist, tho i am over simplifying it...even though it's 'high tech' its not exactly rocket science.

i think that in general though the basic manufacturing jobs in the country are gone and gone for good

[AC]

These days, everybody is better educated than Americans.

Even in poor countries such as the Czech Republic.

China builds a city every month, whilst we build Megachurches.

[conley]

These days, everybody is better educated than Americans.

Even in poor countries such as the Czech Republic.

ok, but how come everyone from everywhere comes to our colleges and universities? is it just to party or is it because we have really good schools?
for some reason it seems to me like there are a lot of foreigners at our schools...there must be some reason they are coming

[Mr. Dirlewanger]

We have excellent universities. Whe  someone says American education sucks I assume he is referring to grade schools.

[AC]

We have great schools, for those who can afford them.

[Mr. Dirlewanger]

'tis getting mighty expensive.

[Gunit Hussein Sangh]

Conley, grumpy is right about manufacturing being a national security issue. Just think of all the hardware our military and government needs to operatre. If we are dependent on foreign countries for that hardware how can we invade them and bring democracy to them if they cut us off?

Plus a country like China can control our economy. Can you imagine what it would be like if they were to cut us off or allow their currency to rise while devauling the $ ? Inflation would devestate our economy.

[conley]

Conley, grumpy is right about manufacturing being a national security issue. Just think of all the hardware our military and government needs to operatre. If we are dependent on foreign countries for that hardware how can we invade them and bring democracy to them if they cut us off?

Plus a country like China can control our economy. Can you imagine what it would be like if they were to cut us off or allow their currency to rise while devauling the $ ? Inflation would devestate our economy.

right well that was why i said keep the military manufacturing here

but i dont know of any realistic proposal to keep all american manufacturing jobs here in the us...do you? of course our capitalist society is about the bottom line and companies are going to make more money if they pay someone in the philippines $1/hr versus here in america where they have to pay for the union auto workers viagra prescriptions (im not making that up, i read somewhere that gm is the largest purchaser of viagra)

[conley]

i dont want to take this off topic but look:

"Lifestyle drugs -- chiefly Viagra -- are costing General Motors $17 million dollars a year and the cost is passed along to car, truck and SUV consumers. The blue pill is covered under GM's labor agreement with United Auto Workers, as well as benefit plans for salaried employees."

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/04/gm_viagra.html

its no wonder michigan is now a giant slum

[Mr. Dirlewanger]

i dont want to take this off topic but look:

"Lifestyle drugs -- chiefly Viagra -- are costing General Motors $17 million dollars a year and the cost is passed along to car, truck and SUV consumers. The blue pill is covered under GM's labor agreement with United Auto Workers, as well as benefit plans for salaried employees."

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/04/gm_viagra.html

its no wonder michigan is now a giant slum

It's not off topic. You're just making your point and it's a good one.