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Author Topic: Fall back, men, Afghanistan is a nasty war we can never win  (Read 228 times)
Mr. Dirlewanger
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« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2008, 08:36:23 AM »

This is from memory and therefore may be wrong, but I believe the turning point in Afghanistan was when we supplied the afhani's shoulder SAM's that the russians had no defense against.

Since Mr. D brought up Chechnya, I decided to read up a bit about it. For those who may have been more interested in american idol than recent history .. here's a link that describes the conflict:

http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolitics/Chechnya.asp

As I was reading thru this ... a few paragraphs really stood out in the Current Conflict section (instead of posting them here, you can click thru and read it). Yes we would *win* in iraq and afghanistan if we employ these techniques ... but if we do this ... are we any better than osama?





No. The American public, to it's credit, would never tolerate those techniques.

Also, I think you are quite right about the SAMs.
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"Now to a tyrant or to an imperial city nothing is inconsistent which is expedient, and no man is a kinsman who cannot be trusted."

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« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2008, 07:07:52 PM »

Afghanistan cannot be fought or won in the conventional sense but it can be both fought and won.
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Mr. Dirlewanger
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« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2008, 07:15:50 PM »

Afghanistan cannot be fought or won in the conventional sense but it can be both fought and won.

Agreed.
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"Now to a tyrant or to an imperial city nothing is inconsistent which is expedient, and no man is a kinsman who cannot be trusted."

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Mr. Dirlewanger
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« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2008, 08:51:47 PM »

This is from memory and therefore may be wrong, but I believe the turning point in Afghanistan was when we supplied the afhani's shoulder SAM's that the russians had no defense against.

Since Mr. D brought up Chechnya, I decided to read up a bit about it. For those who may have been more interested in american idol than recent history .. here's a link that describes the conflict:

http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolitics/Chechnya.asp

As I was reading thru this ... a few paragraphs really stood out in the Current Conflict section (instead of posting them here, you can click thru and read it). Yes we would *win* in iraq and afghanistan if we employ these techniques ... but if we do this ... are we any better than osama?


Gunit, did you click on any of the links Crisis in Chechnya has to offer?  Grin Dr. J.W. Smith's apologies for Soviet communism are thought provoking.



 


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« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2008, 11:47:56 PM »

Americans have a very short-term memory. On the other hand, the British like to romanticize and dramatize their history. What's the big deal ... it's just another political calculation.

"Britain is repeating the experience of Gordon in Khartoum, of the Dardanelles, Singapore and Crete, of politicians who no longer read history expecting others to die for their dreams of glory."

What happened in these places??? I recently watched Charlton Heston in Khartoum. That was a fantastic movie! I read a bit online about Chinese Gordon, Prime Minister Gladstone, and the Sudan. What a story! I would like to read a true history of the episode.
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Gunit Hussein Sangh
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« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2008, 06:12:34 AM »

Mr. D .. I didn' click on any of the links on that article .. I searched the page for Smith and didn't find one. Can you either paste the url here or let me know which link it was.

And in all honesty,  I scanned the page until I got to the section Current Crisis and read that section, and  Embarrassed I didn't read the rest of the document.

If there was something important I missed, please share it.

I was just looking for something to get an idea of the atrocities the soviets did in the conflict so I could ask the question -- are we prepared to do that Huh I'm glad you're not one that is willing to do that ... unfortunately there are many chickenhawk republicans who would.

I know that pittypat enjoys listening to michael savage ... but not too long ago he advocated nuking 100 million muslims. The idea that it is OK to char-broil that many innocent people just to get a few is no better than the propaganda of osama bin laden.
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Mr. Dirlewanger
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« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2008, 09:04:04 AM »

Mr. D .. I didn' click on any of the links on that article .. I searched the page for Smith and didn't find one. Can you either paste the url here or let me know which link it was.

And in all honesty,  I scanned the page until I got to the section Current Crisis and read that section, and  Embarrassed I didn't read the rest of the document.

If there was something important I missed, please share it.

I was just looking for something to get an idea of the atrocities the soviets did in the conflict so I could ask the question -- are we prepared to do that Huh I'm glad you're not one that is willing to do that ... unfortunately there are many chickenhawk republicans who would.

I know that pittypat enjoys listening to michael savage ... but not too long ago he advocated nuking 100 million muslims. The idea that it is OK to char-broil that many innocent people just to get a few is no better than the propaganda of osama bin laden.

http://www.ied.info/books/ed/breakingfree.html

This guy is just gushing with admiration for the Soviet Empire. He dares not call himself a communist/Stalinst but it's patently obvious where his sympathies lie. He actually downplays Stalin's atrocities.

"We hear of the millions who then died from famine in the decade of the 1930s in the wake of social disruptions caused by putting farms under collective or state ownership. But we are now alert to how intelligence services, furthering the policies of managers-of-state of imperial-centers-of-capital, expand or even create these images of rising--centers-of-capital as terrorist states. The truth is that the citizens of the former Soviet Union were fiercely loyal to, and worked hard for, their revolution and one should be very skeptical of those figures. The real threat was the potential for success of this new economic system which practiced participatory democracy. To prevent the subjects of their representative democracies from realizing the possibilities of full and equal rights under a participatory democracy was the primary purpose of the massive propaganda demonizing the Soviet federation as a bloody dictatorship."

Google search "peace" and "human rights" and you are likely to get an assortment of wolves in sheeps clothing. The Global Issues site seems sympathetic to the radical Left.


No, I would not support the unlimited use of force. It has drawbacks but not those that those we sometimes hear about. For instance, brutality doesn't create more terrorists. It finishes the conflict but there is a moral and cultural price to pay.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2008, 09:17:41 AM by Mr. Dirlewanger » Logged

"Now to a tyrant or to an imperial city nothing is inconsistent which is expedient, and no man is a kinsman who cannot be trusted."

~Euphemus of Athens
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