Iran says attack us please

[they call me MR. GRUMPY god damn it!]

hardly.
Bombs alone do not break the OPEC cartel. 

taking out iran has nothing to do with my feelings re opec.  iran constitutes a clear and present threat, they are at war with us and have been for some time now.   

[Peter1469]

OK, then lets do both

Blow up Iran and shift the world liquid fuel economy from oil to alcohol. 

[Mr. Dirlewanger]

There are better ways to tackle Iran. The regime is unpopular and can undermined from within.

[Vermouth]

There are better ways to tackle Iran. The regime is unpopular and can undermined from within.

We've been saying this for 15 years. Iran was a bigger threat to the US than Iraq. I don't understand our foreign policy.

[Mr. Dirlewanger]

There are better ways to tackle Iran. The regime is unpopular and can undermined from within.

We've been saying this for 15 years. Iran was a bigger threat to the US than Iraq. I don't understand our foreign policy.

The neocons are under the mistaken notion that they can bring democracy to non-Western peoples. It is possible but only after the destruction of all previous institutions (i.e. Japan after the war). They gambled that a democratic Iraq would solve all the regions problems in time. I supported this gamble.

[Peter1469]

We have many enemies in the Middle East.  Iraq was a minor threat in that they supported terrorists who attacked the West.  Iran and Saudi Arabia are major threats- they have supported major terrorist movements for decades (Iran- Shiite and SA- Sunni).  However, Saudi Arabia owns us – our government is infiltrated with people beholden to Saudi Arabia, to include our President.  Iran has similar influence with Russia and China.  Iran has a difficult terrain to be easily conquered.  After the Gulf War in 1991 Saudi Arabia demanded that the US remove its military personnel and the US needed a place to have a military presence in the region.  Iraq was the choice.  Iraq has an open geography that is asking for invasion.  It also has only 25M people, 1/3rd the size of Iran.

And we only have one reason to be there: oil.

[they call me MR. GRUMPY god damn it!]

this is not about occupation or democratization.  iran is killing our troops as we debate.  they are moving rapidly toward the development nukes and their words/behavior give clear evidence that this outcome will have catastrophic consequences, these consequences extending well beyond israel or the region in general.   the time to deal with this is right now.  there is no more time to attempt to foster regime change from within or try to talk our way out of this.  we and israel should hit them with whatever is necessary to eliminate their nuclear capacity and their ability to strike back.  again, with whatever is required to do the job completely.  let us demonstrate to our enemies and friends alike that we are not the ones to fuck with. 

[Peter1469]

this is not about occupation or democratization.  iran is killing our troops as we debate.  they are moving rapidly toward the development nukes and their words/behavior give clear evidence that this outcome will have catastrophic consequences, these consequences extending well beyond israel or the region in general.   the time to deal with this is right now.  there is no more time to attempt to foster regime change from within or try to talk our way out of this.  we and israel should hit them with whatever is necessary to eliminate their nuclear capacity and their ability to strike back.  again, with whatever is required to do the job completely.  let us demonstrate to our enemies and friends alike that we are not the ones to fuck with. 

If Iran develops nukes, even though they don’t have the ability yet, who do you think they will attack?  Us (the US) or Israel?  The only way they could make a meaningful attack against the US is by an EMP attack.  Either way, they risk total obliteration is they do so. 

I would immediately pass a law stating that no car sold in the US will be anything other than a flex fuel car that can run off gasoline, ethanol, or methanol.  I would then tell Iran that if they attack Israel the US will absolutely obliterate Iran (every square inch) within 30 minutes- OK, maybe 45 minutes.  No if-ands-or-buts.  I would make sure that the Iranian people had access to this info and I would support all of the dissident movements. 

I think that your plan would bring disaster to the US in the international community. 

[they call me MR. GRUMPY god damn it!]

i don't think we disagree regarding energy policy.  "they risk total obliteration"...christ now you sound like mrs bill.  does mad work with a theocracy that embraces suicide?  regardless, they are killing our soldiers right now.  we are at war right now.  the time to respond with overwhelming force is right now.

[Gunit Hussein Sangh]

I know everyone *knows* Iran is training terrorists to kill US troops and supply them with weapons ... but has the US offered any proof of this or is this one of those things that we are supposed to *trust* dear leader is telling us the truth

[Peter1469]

I know everyone *knows* Iran is training terrorists to kill US troops and supply them with weapons ... but has the US offered any proof of this or is this one of those things that we are supposed to *trust* dear leader is telling us the truth

We have absolute proof that Iranians are training Iraqi fighters and providing them with advanced explosives.  The explosive-formed penatrators (EFP), the nasty IEDs that are the big troop/vehicle killer are provided by Iran.   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explosively_formed_penetrator

We have captured their commandos (Quds Force, or if you prefer Jerusalem Force) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quds_Force in Iraq with insurgents attacking US forces. 

I am not as worked up over it as is the Grump- the US has acted in this manner through the 20th Century.  We are indeed in a proxy war with Iran, just as the USSR was in a proxy war with the US during their Afghan campaigns.  I would summarily execute any Iranian caught in Iraq- hell even Iran says that they are not there, so there could be no objections. 

[bored]

*nevermind*

[they call me MR. GRUMPY god damn it!]

this is not a philosophy lesson in moral equivalence.  what we did or did not do in afghanistan or anywhere else is irrelevant. 

[Peter1469]

this is not a philosophy lesson in moral equivalence.  what we did or did not do in afghanistan or anywhere else is irrelevant. 

No but it is very normal behavior in the international community. 

[they call me MR. GRUMPY god damn it!]

this is not a philosophy lesson in moral equivalence.  what we did or did not do in afghanistan or anywhere else is irrelevant. 

No but it is very normal behavior in the international community. 

only so long as we allow it.