Question for pittypat.

[wow]

Pat,
I noticed you stated that your daughter is Liberal and a nurse that supports rationed healthcare.
What does she say about the problems nurses have in rationed healthcare systems?

[pittypat65]

Wow, I asked her and she said we already have rationed healthcare, dictated by the HMOs.(ins companies) Said its terrible. She has excellant healthcare as her husband works for UPS and its very good. She says the hospital healthcare plan is a terrible HMO. Says that here in NV they call HMOs Nevada Death Insurance. 

[Peter1469]

Health insurance based health care is in a sense rationed health care.  There are just different people making the decisions than in national health care.  Neither one harnesses market forces to natural bring prices down and improve care through competition. 

[gunit_sangh]

Competition has certainly drove down costs for optional services like plastic surgery and procedures like Lasix surgergy ....

but if you're having a heart attack ... are you gonna compare ER costs before seeking care?

If you need major surgery .. are you gonna seek out the cheapest surgeon?

If you find you have cancer ... are you gonna seek out the cheapest oncologist?

When your life is on the line ... you may be someone who wants to go to the cheapest provider of medical care. I want someone who is knowledable and has the expertise to help me live ...

 

[SDML]

Gunit, is that how you truly believe market forces work?

[wow]

Wow, I asked her and she said we already have rationed healthcare, dictated by the HMOs.(ins companies) Said its terrible. She has excellant healthcare as her husband works for UPS and its very good. She says the hospital healthcare plan is a terrible HMO. Says that here in NV they call HMOs Nevada Death Insurance. 

Thanks for the information.
I can't imagine nurses wanting a HMO or rationed Govt healthcare for all Americans, when they do not want it for their own family 

[Peter1469]

Competition has certainly drove down costs for optional services like plastic surgery and procedures like Lasix surgergy ....

but if you're having a heart attack ... are you gonna compare ER costs before seeking care?

If you need major surgery .. are you gonna seek out the cheapest surgeon?

If you find you have cancer ... are you gonna seek out the cheapest oncologist?

When your life is on the line ... you may be someone who wants to go to the cheapest provider of medical care. I want someone who is knowledable and has the expertise to help me live ...

 

Each of the examples that you use- a heart attack, cancer, or major surgery- would be covered by health insurance under my model.  Routine care and foreseeable medical care would not.  You would use money that you save in a health care account taken tax free from your paycheck.  (People who don’t work could be covered by government plans). 

However, Wow did hit the nail on the head with his question about your knowledge of how the free market works.  I would like to hear the answer to his question. 

[Vermouth]

However, Wow did hit the nail on the head with his question about your knowledge of how the free market works.  I would like to hear the answer to his question. 

That was SDML, not Wow.

[Peter1469]

However, Wow did hit the nail on the head with his question about your knowledge of how the free market works.  I would like to hear the answer to his question. 

That was SDML, not Wow.

Wow, you are right!

[pittypat65]

Wow, I asked her and she said we already have rationed healthcare, dictated by the HMOs.(ins companies) Said its terrible. She has excellant healthcare as her husband works for UPS and its very good. She says the hospital healthcare plan is a terrible HMO. Says that here in NV they call HMOs Nevada Death Insurance. 

Thanks for the information.
I can't imagine nurses wanting a HMO or rationed Govt healthcare for all Americans, when they do not want it for their own family 

They already have it, they,nurses, are not responsible for what insurance companies. Most in the USA today have no choice, its HMO or nothing. Those with severe preexisting conditions can't even get HMOs. My daughter wants decent healthcare for everyone, not just those who can afford it. She is a nurse who cares deeply for people. She comes home depressed alot because of what she sees in the ER. I have nothing more to say about this subject, except that I believe that we should take care of our sick and nobody should have to go without healthcare because they can't afford it. This is a rich and supposedly compassionate country. 

[they call me MR. GRUMPY god damn it!]

health care is a commodity not a right.  beyond BASIC care for those who absolutely cannot afford, you get what you pay for.

[pittypat65]

Healthcare is just as much a right if not more than anything else, police, fire etc. We as tax payers pay for that, why not healthcare? Done properly, it would save the taxpayers. Myself, it hurts me to see a person suffer needlessly just because they cannot afford health insurance. I don't claim to be religious and do not proclaim to be much of a christian but I am extremely compassionate and feel that we are most certainly our brothers keepers. Yes, in that respect, I am a bleeding heart. 

[gunit_sangh]

So you're not referring to hospital care ... just routine visits at a doctor

I'll be the first one to admit I'm not a health care expert ... but routine visits to a doctor has to be a small fraction of the total health care costs and these routine visits primarily represents a "people" cost. So to drive down these costs -- you have to drive down the cost of education of the doctor and nurses, go to less experienced doctors/nurses or go to doctors/nurses who are not getting additional training in current advances in treatement.

There's only so much you can drive these costs down before it becomes unrealistic to expect highly trained professionals to accept as compensation for their services.  

 

[blackcat]

Only serious catistrophic health issues like heart attack, cancer and the like should be coverad under a national plan if the patient has no health insurance. This would include followups, medications like chemo, heart medication and all.

[Vermouth]

Only serious catistrophic health issues like heart attack, cancer and the like should be coverad under a national plan if the patient has no health insurance. This would include followups, medications like chemo, heart medication and all.

I think that makes sense and would be humane.

The main issue is the astronomical inflation of heathcare costs that has taken place in recent years. The causes need to be addressed ... Malpractice lawsuits? HMOs? Insurance regulation?