Russian proposal for European security would sideline NATO

[Mr. Dirlewanger]

The whole artile is interesting but these passages had opposite effcets on me. I think tha the US plan for missles in the Czech Republic is a good idea and Russian fears misplaced. On the other hand, admitting Ukraine and Georgia into NATO is unnecessarily provocative. Why even talk like that when we are trying to assuage what I think are irrational fears concerning US missle placement? Such a move would be to isolate Russia whether that is the intention or not.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/07/27/europe/nato.php?page=2

NATO, for example, has already said it would one day admit Ukraine and Georgia into the alliance, despite fierce opposition from the Kremlin. Russia has repeatedly argued that if these two former Soviet Union countries joined NATO, Russia's security would be undermined.

Russia is at loggerheads with the United States over the Pentagon's plans to deploy part of the antiballistic missile shield in Poland and the Czech Republic, moves that the Kremlin has called provocative and threatening to Russia's security.

[Vermouth]

I agree we shouldn't isolate Russia based on such a trivial issue as NATO membership of former Soviet states, but just because NATO is a thorn in Russia's side doesn't mean we should give it up. Russia is really not all that powerful other than the fact that they have all those old nukes.

[gorknoids]

We SHOULD isolate Russia.  It's a Hell-hole, and the single best argument for Balkanization on Earth today.  America needs to own Russia.

[Mr. Dirlewanger]

Slowly embracing Russia as part of the West is in our long term interest  and Russia's too. The real threat to an underpopulated Russia is China, not the West.

Russia's idea of eclipsing NATO with a new agreement is far fetched and I would imagine that they know it.

[gorknoids]

They've never been correct.  Russia is, as you aptly point out, underpopulated, and underexploited.  What's the old saw about the Chinese marching into the sea? Or the Chinese taking over the world armed only with sticks?

[Peter1469]

Except for Russia’s Pacific holdings, China would have a hard time even launching and maintaining an attack on Russia.  Too much empty and undeveloped space to cross. 

[Lookout]

So this is ok for you to post...something about russia from a main stream media brainwashing source, but not ok for me to post a russian main stream media thread about what is taking place in Georgia? You are just a bitter angry old troll that is probably pissed off because you can't keep up with all the things I post. And, if no one finds it interesting, how come my posts get hundreds of hits? What a troll! You and grumpy should start your very own he man everybody haters club. LOL

[Mr. Dirlewanger]

So this is ok for you to post...

Correct. 

[Jacob.]

So this is ok for you to post...something about russia from a main stream media brainwashing source, but not ok for me to post a russian main stream media thread about what is taking place in Georgia? You are just a bitter angry old troll that is probably pissed off because you can't keep up with all the things I post. And, if no one finds it interesting, how come my posts get hundreds of hits? What a troll! You and grumpy should start your very own he man everybody haters club. LOL

You seriously need to get over yourself.

[Mr. Dirlewanger]

So this is ok for you to post...something about russia from a main stream media brainwashing source, but not ok for me to post a russian main stream media thread about what is taking place in Georgia? You are just a bitter angry old troll that is probably pissed off because you can't keep up with all the things I post. And, if no one finds it interesting, how come my posts get hundreds of hits? What a troll! You and grumpy should start your very own he man everybody haters club. LOL

You seriously need to get over yourself.

Welcome, Jacob. We have had trouble with this guy. No one cares if he babbles on about his conspiracy theories but we are tired of the threads that consist of nothing more than an infowars link.

[conley]

So this is ok for you to post...something about russia from a main stream media brainwashing source, but not ok for me to post a russian main stream media thread about what is taking place in Georgia? You are just a bitter angry old troll that is probably pissed off because you can't keep up with all the things I post. And, if no one finds it interesting, how come my posts get hundreds of hits? What a troll! You and grumpy should start your very own he man everybody haters club. LOL

You seriously need to get over yourself.

Welcome, Jacob. We have had trouble with this guy. No one cares if he babbles on about his conspiracy theories but we are tired of the threads that consist of nothing more than an infowars link.

maybe we should say something to admin, have him trolled again for a while...

[Jacob.]

So this is ok for you to post...something about russia from a main stream media brainwashing source, but not ok for me to post a russian main stream media thread about what is taking place in Georgia? You are just a bitter angry old troll that is probably pissed off because you can't keep up with all the things I post. And, if no one finds it interesting, how come my posts get hundreds of hits? What a troll! You and grumpy should start your very own he man everybody haters club. LOL

You seriously need to get over yourself.

Welcome, Jacob. We have had trouble with this guy. No one cares if he babbles on about his conspiracy theories but we are tired of the threads that consist of nothing more than an infowars link.

I’m a bit of a conspiracy nut, but my interests lie in Bigfoot. I do not believe the 9/11 conspiracy theories because, if it was true, all of the proponents would have been dead by now. The government would not allow for such information to be released.

I posted a thread in the Pub about Bigfoot. I’m not crazy. I promise.

[conley]

Russia has gone on record as saying they would never under any circumstances allow Ukraine or Georgia into NATO. They have said officially that they would "shed blood" to prevent this.