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Author Topic: Ron Pauls Campaign.....  (Read 301 times)

Offline Mister D

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Re: Ron Pauls Campaign.....
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2011, 02:21:49 PM »
I don't because illegal immigration isn't the issue. RP, like most libertarians, is for an open border. It's part and parcel of how libertarians view the world. I'm not impressed by this talk of illegal immigration.

What would you make of the argument that in order to be in favor of free trade you ought to be in favor of free immigration?

Well, I guess there's a little bit to that, but I don't think it's an absolute. Trade is different from people coming in, especially when they get benefits and when they come in illegally. I guess you can say it's an ideal that you could work toward.

We've done pretty well with Canada over the years.

http://www.vdare.com/articles/ron-paul-i-believe-in-national-sovereignty

Read on. No way I'd trust a libertarian on this issue.

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Offline Mister D

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Re: Ron Pauls Campaign.....
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2011, 02:23:42 PM »
It's the usual libertarian spiel about getting rid of the welfare state.
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Offline Conley

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Re: Ron Pauls Campaign.....
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2011, 02:28:31 PM »
From the article:

So in many ways, I'm pretty moderate and mainstream. I'm not radical either way. I don't want to put tanks and shoot illegal immigrants as they come over, that's one extreme. The other is totally open borders—just let them flow in.

So he's not for open borders. He cites Canada as an example where edit: somewhat open borders have worked, but he says it is the job of the federal government to secure the borders. He wouldn't change immigration quotas and if we enforced the laws on the books that would be a huge step in the right direction. Compared to the stances of just about every other candidate who is for amnesty one way or another I would think he would win points for that.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2011, 02:31:57 PM by Conley »
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Offline Mister D

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Re: Ron Pauls Campaign.....
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2011, 02:38:00 PM »
Quote from: Conley on November 06, 2011, 02:28:31 PM
From the article:

So in many ways, I'm pretty moderate and mainstream. I'm not radical either way. I don't want to put tanks and shoot illegal immigrants as they come over, that's one extreme. The other is totally open borders—just let them flow in.

So he's not for open borders. He cites Canada as an example where open borders have worked, but he says it is the job of the federal government to secure the borders. He wouldn't change immigration quotas and if we enforced the laws on the books that would be a huge step in the right direction. Compared to the stances of just about every other candidate who is for amnesty one way or another I would think he would win points for that.


Who has ever suggested shooting illegal immigrants? Hyperbole much, Ron?  ::)

Anyway, the issue for me is that Paul, like most libertarians, sees immigration solely in terms of economics. Moreover, his views on legal immigration are what concerns me. I'll grant you that on illegals he has a better stated position than the other candidates. Here is a good review of his positions:

http://www.vdare.com/articles/ron-paul-on-immigration-the-good-the-bad-and-the-idiosyncratic
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Offline Conley

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Re: Ron Pauls Campaign.....
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2011, 02:46:27 PM »
"Hispandering"

:rofl:

Fair enough. When he says stuff like, "He told ABC's John Stossel that without the welfare state, legal immigration "would be a non-issue."" In my mind he is attributing the illegal immigration to the benefits that await Mexicans here. If you remove the benefits and thus the illegals, is there still a big problem with immigration?
« Last Edit: November 06, 2011, 02:48:38 PM by Conley »
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Offline Mister D

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Re: Ron Pauls Campaign.....
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2011, 02:48:45 PM »
Quote from: Conley on November 06, 2011, 02:46:27 PM
"Hispandering"

:rofl:


 :D I never heard the before either.

To wit, my language was too strong. You're right about that. I just don't trust libertarians at all. There are a few Europeans libertarians I like but no Americans. This guy is interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans-Hermann_Hoppe#Immigration
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Offline Conley

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Re: Ron Pauls Campaign.....
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2011, 03:01:13 PM »
Interesting guy...it makes sense to be leery of Libertarians regarding immigration since it seems the platform position would be wide open.
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Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. -Eisenhower
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